Playstation Network Lies

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Post » Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:32 pm

only one person can play at a time, why would you need multiple accounts? I play portal 2. turn off steam, and my kids can play on their computer afterward with separate save files if need be. I can log onto battleforge with any number of battleforge accounts on pc. anyone at my house can log onto their account and play mortal kombat on the ps3. I must be missing the benefit here.
[quote="Mr Wolf":1ax78h0a]simply saying XBL is more expensive isn't entirely accurate.[/quote:1ax78h0a]
I disagree. XBL being more expensive is entirely accurate.


pc - free online play
mac - free online play
gameboy ds - free online play
psp - free online play
android - free online play
mac - free online play
iphone - free online play
ps2 - free online play
wii - free online play
ps3 - free online play
dreamcast - free online play

starting to see a pattern here? if everything else that provides the same service is free, if ms is charging one cent it's more expensive. they are charging you because they can. it's a complete scam
any game that forces you to buy the game more than once for you to play with more than one user account is similarly scammy. On my ps3, not only can other people on different accounts on my ps3 play my games, I'm allowed to share all my games and DLC that I pay for off of psn with 3 other people. my friend and brother have both downloaded probably a few hundred bucks of free games and content. this isn't a piracy scheme, sony actually allows this, and doesn't allow it after the initial 3 people per file. if you think ms needs the extra money to bring you xboxlive, you must not be familiar with microsoft.
hotmail probably gets more hits a day than xbl, combine that with msdn, windows update, windows antivirus, bing, and the gazillions of other microsoft owned and run ip that get nonstop bandwidth abuse. steam is a superior service by a supersmall company, and it's free. it's pure and simple, it isn't even a debate. XBL is a total scam, and there's no excuse for it not to be free. it doesn't do anything that hasn't been done before and is still being done for free on other platforms, by much smaller companies, with much less money, and resources.

edit: and another thing, unfortunately the corruption bleeds onto other systems, but another thing you're paying for with xbl is ms's greedy bs where they force everyone to charge for dlc. companies try to release content for free on the 360, and then ms steps in forces them to charge. this is why steam went to ps3 and not 360, ms wanted to control everything. now what? they're stuck with a crippled version of the game. you buy once for ps3, you own it on ps3, mac, and pc, your cloud game saves transfer so you can continue your game on a different platform, and all 3 platforms can play co op, later today, I'll play pc portal2 with my friend on his ps3 complete with voice chat. game updates and bugfixes are pushed out the second valve wants them to be. completely superior experience on all other platforms...why? because ms tried to bully valve, and not let them do what they needed to properly release the game. i believe I heard ms finally caved in, and will allow steam in the future, but what a load of bs. originally gears was supposed to have free map packs, but once again ms stepped in to kill the user experience. it all worked out in the end though, because now you have 80 companies who charge to change the color of your character sprite, and an army of fanboys who say that it's somehow a good thing that they have to pay for a "service" they can get for free anywhere else
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Post » Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:11 pm

Sorry, a bit of a misunderstanding here. We're on the same side.

I'm not supporting Microsoft's charging people. I just also hate with some PC games where you'd have an online account with rankings or leveling (CoD, Starcraft 2, etc), you'd have to buy the game twice if you wanted a family member to have a separate account. Unless you want to share an account, you have to buy the game multiple times. In certain situations, XBL would actually be cheaper for some families. It doesn't make it right, only sometimes cheaper than other alternatives which aren't right either. I'm not defending their practices, only saying PC games need to have multiple accounts for a single copy of a game. Please do not mistake me for a fanboy.

I know all about MS and XBL, so telling me MS is greedy isn't necessary. Their update policy, DLC practices, paid avatar items, etc are stupid. However, the PC isn't perfect either and in some ways is getting worse. That's my point. The best system would be a combination of the best features of Steam, PSN, and XBL. Free accounts and all family members getting access to a game they own/share. Official dedicated servers for anyone to use (for consoles and PCs) and for PCs the added option to run your own. That would be excellent.

BTW, isn't it really strange that MS charges for XBL even though they almost never have dedicated servers? (I think L4D2 does) It isn't much of a service when it comes to the online play itself.

Also, the rising of microtransactions is awful. As is the dying feature that is LAN. =( I'm also more of a retail box, DVD, and CD key person myself but that's kind of dead nowadays.

BTW, about "only one person can play at a time," with some XBL games, you can play splitscreen online. If you had 4 people playing a Halo game online and each one had an account, all their online stats, ranks, etc would be stored separately.

Note: I type this on a high end homebuilt desktop. No one can say I don't like PCs =)
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Post » Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:29 pm

I think your hate against M$ is unfounded Lucid, DLC can be free for Xbox games as well. For instance, I've had my indie games add new content in updates, and Super Meat Boy provides new map sets in their updates. I'm pretty sure it's the game companies that are usually happy to say "Okay, I'll charge a price for this", otherwise they would release the content, but at the lowest price possible (240 points, approximately $3).

Not only that, PC has had countless "DLC" like content that was sold. They were called "expansion packs". The Sims PC games still get away with selling stuff like "New shoes!", usually for much higher prices than DLC in console games.

Sure, the services are free on other consoles/systems, but Xbox includes all of those services and adds additional ones all the time using the money it recieves from its members. PSN Plus is pretty much Sonys way of collecting money to improve PSN. Free is great, but once Sony sells all of their PS3's there wont be any reason (or money) in keeping it going past making a cut on transactions.

Lets compare the Xbox Live services with Steams services:
You can't buy music with Steam, you can with Xbox Live.
You can't watch tv and rent movies on Steam, you can with Xbox Live.
You can't rate your games and content with Steam, you can with Xbox Live.
You can't video chat on Steam, you can with Xbox Live.

Steam doesn't have these services (nor PSN + Steam that is also in a consistent layout), Xbox Live does. That's what some of the $40 a year goes towards.

I'm much more of a PC gamer, so I know what I can get for free, but Xbox Live is usually a much tidier way to play the games without any hastle or worrying if my PC specs are too low/drivers are out of date. Plus, I like talking to my friends in a party of 8 while we all play different games without causing any lag ingame.
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Post » Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:32 pm

[quote="Jayjay":2g32b4xm]
Lets compare the Xbox Live services with Steams services:
You can't buy music with Steam, you can with Xbox Live.
You can't watch tv and rent movies on Steam, you can with Xbox Live.
You can't rate your games and content with Steam, you can with Xbox Live.
You can't video chat on Steam, you can with Xbox Live.
[/quote:2g32b4xm]
xbl has to do those things because it's a console, valve knows I can buy music, etc, elsewhere, as well as video chat. it's a pc, I don't want steam to do all that crap. besides I thought all those features were free, and it was just the online gameplay that you're actually paying for? also one or two pc games here and there charging for a separate dlc or user account is one thing, one companies actions. if microsoft was able to stop each new pc game from releasing something without first haggling about the details is a whole 'nother thing. epic did a complete 180 after talking to ms, from (approx quote) "if [microsoft] would stop being so greedy they could get what they want anyway." to "we want what microsoft wants, to make as much money as possible". it's almost comical, like they take them to a brainwashing chamber.

my hate for the console isn't just rampant fanboyism. this whole dlc thing is getting worse and worse, and in my opinion microsoft has caused alot of this, and it affects every platform now. they turned a few companies to the dark side, and now it's a fad.

The problem with this charging for online service is that I don't want it to catch on. PS Plus is the beginning of the end unless one of the other new consoles saves the world. it isn't some tradeoff like everyone says, you're not paying for better service. the fact that they tried to pull this crap on windows proves it has nothing to do with necessity. xboxlive does nothing that hasn't been done multiple times for free.

you pay your isp for bandwidth, you pay microsoft a toll to be allowed to play your games online.
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Post » Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:29 pm

[quote="lucid":2c396tnh]you pay your isp for bandwidth, you pay microsoft a toll to be allowed to play your games online.[/quote:2c396tnh]

I pay Microsoft so they can use my money to secure their networks, keep cheaters and hackers out of my games, keep the networks up at least 99% of the time, release new updates to my Xbox experience, ensure that most DLC and services end up available for my console first (or at least at the same time as PS3).

It's not like a toll bridge where you pay for a completed installation, it's a service that expands just as the people who pay for WoW get new updates.

In this case scenario, the customers who pay for multiplayer also pay towards services like downloads. However with PS3, the developers pay (see here: [url:2c396tnh]http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/45640/Sony-Charging-Publishers-For-PSN-Bandwidth[/url:2c396tnh]). It's a small charge, but it adds up when only a single entity is paying the bill.

[quote="lucid":2c396tnh]this whole dlc thing is getting worse and worse, and in my opinion microsoft has caused alot of this, and it affects every platform now[/quote:2c396tnh]

As I said, DLC/paid expansions has been around since The Sims and even before that with Command and Conquer Red Alert releasing Aftermath and Counterstrike. Considering Red Alert has a map editor, it was pretty lame of them to just release some new maps and an "ant battle mode" in the latter one. Even Doom 2 had expansions released which were literally just new maps and textures.

Microsoft aren't to blame, they only said "Well, if they can do it, so can I" just as the other companies would.

Edit: Something I just discovered, Steam came out after the original Xbox Live service, meaning the idea of buying things and having access to them from your account (eg: buying the right to use a DLC expansion for your game that is tied to your account) was actually implemented by Microsoft before Valve.
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Post » Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:47 pm

I always hear that Microsft helps out indie developers more than Sony does. Also, microtransactions are far worse than regular DLC and the PC has a lot of free2play games funded by microtransactions. No system is innocent. You don't think Valve loves money? Look at what TF2 has become. (http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=300) (Note to future readers, that link will stop working eventually because of the way that site works) Need I also mention that if your Steam accounts gets banned, you lose access to all your games? Also, if Steam does go under, there's nothing in the agreement between you and Valve that says they have to unlock the DRM. Because most of the games belong to other companies', I don't know if Valve can even legally do that.
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Post » Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:12 pm

well, obviously there's no way to resolve this, but I stand firm despite your additional arguments in my personal belief that paying for xboxlive is a horrible direction for things to be headed, and that they are providing no service that shouldn't be free (including updating, maintaining, and upgrading their own network, why wouldn't they?). also, valve tactics compared to ms is laughable, tf2 came out in what year? and nonstop its been constantly getting new maps, modes, weapons, rebalancing, and of course bug fixes, etc, with no extra charge. the problem isn't companies trying to make money. there's just a certain line I think ms crossed when they started charging for online play, and when they started pressuring each developer about everything they try to release. thanks for the comic strip btw, the girl is cute
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Post » Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:01 am

Uh, Jayjay, when you play on XBL, the XBL servers don't really do anything. Game data is sent between the host console and the others and party chat works the same way. MS doesn't do much of anything in that regard. There is the matchmaking service, though.

Lucid, I agree that XBL should be free (the main features which are peer to peer), but I don't trust any of the other companies or the direction they're taking, either. TF2 has microtransactions. It makes me wonder where Valve is heading. Most of the big game companies are doing scary things these days. Activision-Blizzard's dropping of LAN and their new account system, the numerous F2P games (which are often a ripoff, but probably not always), awful DRM everywhere, etc. I'm not comparing XBL and Steam so much as saying Steam needs watched, too. (And yes, I really hate small payments for things) I am forced to add one fact about XBL, though. It is set up and maintained better than PSN or the Wii's online. (just for the sake of completeness, not trying to justify anything) I'm sure I could find plenty of other ways that the different major game companies rip people off, but meh.

One of the most absurd things is paying for DLC which is already on the disc. Capcom has no shame...

At least indie games seem to be on the rise! The indie developers seem to treat people the best when it comes to DRM and they bring some great ideas to the industry.
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Post » Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:44 am

[quote:br3qdy5f]TF2 has microtransactions. It makes me wonder where Valve is heading.[/quote:br3qdy5f]
Completely optional microtransactions. Nearly everything you can get in the Mann Co. Store can be gotten through random drops, crafting, or trading without having to pay a cent. What can only be gotten through the store are, basically, effectively donations to community map makers. And part of the profits go to people in the community who submitted their items to Valve and became part of the game.

Portal 2's co-op items are also completely cosmetic and optional.

It will be a cold day in hell before Valve starts selling, microtransaction-wise, anything other than cosmetic stuff and stuff you can legitimately by other means.
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Post » Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:30 am

[quote="Mr Wolf":lni9r7wg]One of the most absurd things is paying for DLC which is already on the disc. Capcom has no shame...[/quote:lni9r7wg]
yeah, capcom is one of the main companies I was thinking of
[quote="Mr Wolf":lni9r7wg]I am forced to add one fact about XBL, though. It is set up and maintained better than PSN or the Wii's online.[/quote:lni9r7wg]
yeah, although my friend who is a recent convert to ps3 after his latest bricked 360 says the actual smoothness of online play doesn't seem to be much better or worse on either system. but the 360 dashboard looks about 800 times better, and has a real ui instead of just a line of stuff. I chalk that up to microsofts unrivaled experience creating user interfaces and reliable networks. I mean...they make windows, the most ubiquitous piece of software period, and an OS no less. sony and wii have alot of catching up to do understanding networks and UI. but once again, this is experience that makes that possible, not so much charging people for XBL

also...
[quote="everything candescence":lni9r7wg][/quote:lni9r7wg]
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