Plugins/effects and C3

Post » Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:29 pm

Elliott wrote:
digitalsoapbox wrote:
bilgekaan wrote:@digitalsoapbox I just saw Sombrero's recommended specs on steam.

OS: Windows 10
Processor: Intel Core i7
Memory: 8 GB RAM
Graphics: Nvidia GTX 980 or equivalent with 8GB VRAM
DirectX: Version 11
Network: Broadband Internet connection
Storage: 500 MB available space
Additional Notes: Best played with a 2 stick controller

I think you should definitely use something other than Construct.


Recommended specs will always be high. The minimum specs should be able to be much lower considering the 2D nature of the game, however because of serious limitations that are endemic to Construct's codebase, which are continuously denied but easy to spot just by looking at the engine code, that hasn't been possible. Even low resolution pixel art games stutter, and that's not just due to garbage collection.

It's simply not a tool for any sizable - or sustainable - game development, period, in its current state. Or seemingly in C3, based on the expectations of either a browser-based or wrapped-browser IDE, on either desktop or mobile, and certainly not on any console, marketing claims aside.

I'm not even sure the appropriate words exist in the English language to fully express the frustration I had getting even acceptable, let alone good, performance in Sombrero - and I've been dealing with web-based tech professionally for around 20 years. While I understand some (Ashley) will blame others for performance issues, that's simply not the case here - the engine just can't cut it for anything large, and definitely not anything that is meant to run at resolutions expected out of modern desktop games, 2D or otherwise.

Don't even get me started on collision (or often, lack thereof) issues, unstable frame rates, buggy native behaviors that Scirra refuses to fix (jumpthrough issues, for example), or missing features that are common enough that I can comfortably say they're available with any other option natively - and by "natively" I mean the actual definition of the word, not the one that Scirra misuses all too often to obfuscate performance issues that can be linked directly to C2.

Anyways, live and learn. There's other tools out there without these issues. I'd suggest looking into them. The event system is cool, but the albatross it's currently shackled to is held together with duct tape and bubble gum that's icky and gooey and the seams are showing.


This is the kind of dialogue that should be promoted and out in the open between high level developers and Scirra - have you provided isolated cases of your concerns?


I have, but my experience so far has seen a refusal to admit need for improvement or understanding of what users who aren't just making simple mobile games or re-posting store templates on app stores are looking for in their development tools. It may be beneficial for Scirra to work more closely with some of their developers to understand what's needed, but maybe that's happening and we're all unaware...though it's not like there's really all that many larger games in C2 either way, which isn't a great sign.

Here's a great example of the kind of issues I repeatedly run into when trying to push C2:
  • Create a new layout
  • Set the window size to 1280x720.
  • Add some sprites with collisions across all of it, or a tilemap with collisions enabled and some tiles placed in it that span across the layout.
  • On the start of the layout, resize the window size to 640x360.
  • Congrats! You've just broken collision cells.

Of course, this could be easily remedied by providing an action to force a recalculation of collision cells...but we don't have that. I have at least a dozen more examples I could put down off the top of my head, but based on my experience with trying to get things improved/fixed in the past, I don't see any value in spending my time putting them together to then be ignored or called "not a bug" or "not a supported behavior." For example, issues with the jumpthrough behavior where the character just falls through platforms with no real explanation, especially on slopes - which has been reported multiple times over multiple years by multiple users. In the case of jumpthrough, it's clearly a bug being hidden behind a statement of "it doesn't support that," since it works 99% of the time but the desire to put forth the effort to fix the 1% of the time where it doesn't (edges of collision cells, certain angles at certain x/y locations, etc.) doesn't exist.
Last edited by digitalsoapbox on Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
B
88
S
47
G
25
Posts: 535
Reputation: 21,802

Post » Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:37 pm

@digitalsoapbox Don't get me wrong, I always like to see improvements. I also encounter the jump thru bug and some other weird problems. I wrote TNP's recommended specs because you said: "Recommended specs will always be high." And It sounds like every polished game should have VR Ready PC specs.
B
74
S
36
G
40
Posts: 440
Reputation: 25,811

Post » Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:27 pm

What about having a basic plugin manager in construct3 - and a repository for the excellent work of REX and other contributors here.
Is @ashley willing to officially support those plugins?
B
40
S
15
G
4
Posts: 426
Reputation: 5,870

Post » Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:45 pm

I imagine one of the many advantages of the browserification of C3 will be the asset store being baked into the editor - this combined with the new editor plugin SDK and the new features that will bring leads me to believe the editor will have plug-and-play functionality similar to editors like Sublime with package control.
B
64
S
25
G
10
Posts: 654
Reputation: 10,842

Post » Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:19 pm

bilgekaan wrote:@digitalsoapbox Don't get me wrong, I always like to see improvements. I also encounter the jump thru bug and some other weird problems. I wrote TNP's recommended specs because you said: "Recommended specs will always be high." And It sounds like every polished game should have VR Ready PC specs.


Well...maybe not VR for a 2D game :).
B
88
S
47
G
25
Posts: 535
Reputation: 21,802

Post » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:41 pm

Today's blog post confirms that c2 plugins/addons will not be compatible with c3.
B
62
S
20
G
56
Posts: 1,077
Reputation: 36,021

Post » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:20 pm

Burvey wrote:Today's blog post confirms that c2 plugins/addons will not be compatible with c3.


C3 plugs use json, and C2 uses xml.
It should be fairly easy to convert them.
Same for ico's, just no idea of file type.
Im guessing vector which will require a bitmap embed for a simple conversion.
I think Inkscape still does this.
Image ImageImage
B
172
S
50
G
183
Posts: 8,439
Reputation: 115,597

Post » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:40 pm

It may be easy for some, but not for me (or a majority of C2 users I would imagine). I don't know how to convert xml to json etc. I would have to either wait for the developers to update the plugins or pay someone to do it. Rex has what? 100+ plugins? How long would that take him to update, even if he wanted to spend the time updating them. Using Podes plugins? Out of luck there too. What about the paid plugins that are no longer supported or have limited support? I wonder how many people use the cranberry plugings in their projects. Most of the plugins I use are from users that have already left the community or from Rex, who has so many that it will take a very long time to get them all updated. With that being said, I'm not surprised that the c2 plugins aren't compatible out of the box with c3. I never expected them to be. My concern is that users are going to be quite disappointed when they try loading up their project in c3 and it doesn't open.
B
62
S
20
G
56
Posts: 1,077
Reputation: 36,021

Post » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:20 pm

The conversion between the two formats should be trivial, and would likely have a converter from the start.
Think about it, why would they change it so much that it would make converting the official plugs an ordeal?
Then the image format is trivial as well, you don't even have to have an icon.
Image ImageImage
B
172
S
50
G
183
Posts: 8,439
Reputation: 115,597

Post » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:20 pm

Burvey wrote:It may be easy for some, but not for me (or a majority of C2 users I would imagine). I don't know how to convert xml to json etc. I would have to either wait for the developers to update the plugins or pay someone to do it. Rex has what? 100+ plugins? How long would that take him to update, even if he wanted to spend the time updating them. Using Podes plugins? Out of luck there too. What about the paid plugins that are no longer supported or have limited support? I wonder how many people use the cranberry plugings in their projects. Most of the plugins I use are from users that have already left the community or from Rex, who has so many that it will take a very long time to get them all updated. With that being said, I'm not surprised that the c2 plugins aren't compatible out of the box with c3. I never expected them to be. My concern is that users are going to be quite disappointed when they try loading up their project in c3 and it doesn't open.


I would imagine that this is why the only parts of the "big" projects we've seen open in C3 are the title screens. The definition of "high fidelity" also seems to have changed from any I'm familiar with, if C3 is unable to use C2 projects that use any third-party plugins, which is, I would again imagine, most of them.
B
88
S
47
G
25
Posts: 535
Reputation: 21,802

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests