Proposed licensing model

Discussion and feedback on Construct 2

Post » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:13 pm

[quote="lucid":c0lytziu]Ashley, there's only one problem I see here, but it seems like a major one.
Someone using it for free gets unlimited updates, but nag screens
someone who pays for subscription basically gets a frozen version, so after 2 years, the free one is actually better.[/quote:c0lytziu]
Oh, you're right... the subscription expiring has to revert back to demo mode, then. Good catch... it means users who have paid end up getting nagged again, but the message can be changed if the license has expired, and made less intrusive.

[quote="Neo1000":c0lytziu]Also another question pops up, you say that you and your team did this because you like programming, well why don't you want to keep it free.?[/quote:c0lytziu]
Because I graduate soon, and I need to get a job, and I can't think of a better job than working on this, but to do that I need a way to pay rent, food, bills etc. I could get a job, and it would be tech related because that's what I'm best at, but there's nothing worse than doing a 9 till 5 on a computer then coming home to carry on working on a computer. There's just no time for anything else. This has in fact been responsible for some lengthy gaps between updates in 0.x. Plus, if we're going full time, we can make a much better, more capable program.

Mozilla are a large organisation with many employees, several income streams from parent companies and advertising or search engine deals, and I'm a guy in a bedroom who sometimes writes some code. Don't take this the wrong way, but you kind of sound a bit like "hey, this guy loves programming, so why can't he just do it because he loves it then I get to have a free program as well?" It doesn't work quite like that... I suppose you want painters to work a 9-to-5 in a call center so you can have their paintings for free, just because they love painting so much? What if they could make a living from painting instead?
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Post » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:27 pm

Is a 2 year subscription model going to be enough for you to go full time on C2?

Wouldn't it be better to put a price on major updates?

40 pounds for a pro version and 10 pounds for major updates for example..?
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Post » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:30 pm

I still agree with Neo1000 and also everything newt has said here and in the other thread. The way i am reading it is people are thinking anyone that disagrees just doesn't want to buy Construct if it is commercial at 200 and bringing the argument that will pay for itself in no time.

I agree with that and from what i have read so does Neo1000 other than the change of plan. This is not a problem with paying and in fact for a quality program like Construct if it was in a stable state i would pay up to 400. The problem i have is this time out subscription plan, sure i want to support this app and would be happy to buy it if i could keep it but i can't see that happening if after 2 years i then don't own it and have to pay again.

After a few years doing that it would be more than MMF2 and on the way to a unity pro price and also what is to say development will keep happening? What if i paid for 4+ years and then development stopped for some reason, i would not technically own the program i had spent hundreds on.

Again i want to support construct and would be happy to buy if i can actually keep using the product i paid for but i really don't like this subscription idea. :(
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Post » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:37 pm

How about lucid's idea then: a third license, 'indie perpetual', which is more (150 say) but lasts indefinitely? You only save money if you keep using it for 7-8 years, but it never expires. You then can choose between a lower subscription rate or a higher one off cost. I suppose we could also have an option to transfer to perpetual from a subscription, less any subscription already paid.

Edit: it's also hard to put a price on "major" updates because our development model doesn't have any major updates. It's planned that we have incremental updates (29, 30, 31...) indefinitely.
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Post » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:44 pm

[quote="Ashley":265y2shq]Because I graduate soon, and I need to get a job, and I can't think of a better job than working on this, but to do that I need a way to pay rent, food, bills etc.[/quote:265y2shq]
So you think that for about 40'000 People x 40 Pounds = 1'600'000 Pounds you would make a living? :|
Having just one paid software won't get very far, with subscription or no subscription.
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Post » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:52 pm

I think "subscription" is a bad name..has negative sound to it. I think pay $40 (or whatever you decide) for the product + two years of upgrades sounds a whole lot better. At the end of the two years if you choose to use the old product and not buy again then that is on you. You OWN it.

The HTML5 market is going to get VERY competitive in the next couple of years though..so to be successful I really hope you have plans to do an .exe exporter soon. I will definitely buy it though!!

Having programmed quite a bit myself I'm appalled as well at anybody who would think that because somebody likes to program they should do it for free. People pay more for a fancy night out on the town than the cost of this software. They either are so young they don't have to take care of themselves or are delusional. People got to it eat.....

p.s. As far as the development model goes, I can see how having lots of minor upgrades would continue to encourage everybody to "subscribe" vs buy it once (unlike GM where everything is stable and solid before they release). So you do have an advantage there. I think I would be reluctant to pay 150+ for a lifetime license not knowing what would happen 6-7 years down the road though. Although allowing you to put existing money towards a longterm indie license isn't bad.

@NEO1000 You seem to think that it is bad to be successful and make money off of a project. Although, I personally doubt 40K folks are going to jump right on this myself with it in Alpha...if they did I would be happy for Ashley.
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Post » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:52 pm

[quote="Ashley":1b95ve9m]How about lucid's idea then: a third license, 'indie perpetual', which is more (150 say) but lasts indefinitely? You only save money if you keep using it for 7-8 years, but it never expires. You then can choose between a lower subscription rate or a higher one off cost. I suppose we could also have an option to transfer to perpetual from a subscription, less any subscription already paid.[/quote:1b95ve9m]

Yes please allow for that also, i was originally expecting a payment method like MMF2's you pay a base price for a major version and then it never expires and then you get until the next major release or a bit longer before upgrading.

As long as there is a option like that which never expires i would be happy to buy that once the editor is a bit more stable and has a few more features than it currently does (more complete like C1 rather than beta before i had to buy basically).

But yes that sound much better :)
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Post » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:54 pm

[quote="scidave":elqfk7xx]@NEO1000 You seem to think that it is bad to be successful and make money off of a project. Although, I personally doubt 40K folks are going to jump right on this myself with it in Alpha...if they did I would be happy for Ashley.[/quote:elqfk7xx]
I never mind if someone would make a program to earn. It's just that something that has been planned to be open source gets changed to closed source, which is extremly annoying to me. Especially it should a subscription plan.

Even if the subscription plan gets renamed to "2 years free updates" that's still a subscribtion plan even if it has a super fancy name.
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Post » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:56 pm

[quote:29w5jfmw]
You wouldn't mind programming 5 million lines for that, you make Construct because it's your passion to program a software!...

If I would make a software like this and first let this be free, it will stay free in the future. I don't want to scare away people with a subscription plan....[/quote:29w5jfmw]


That's silly. Scirra is asking so little for so much. I can't believe some of the comments I'm reading. Atleast Scirra is actually consulting us about it, where most other companies would just slap an outrageous price on their software and call it a day. You don't see any threads on their sites about such prices, do you? While the whole subscription thing seems kind of odd, 150$ every 2 years is nothing, especially if you're profiting from your games. C2 could be 5x more expensive and still cheaper than a lot of other hobbies out there. Anyway..this 'indie perpetual' license sounds like a winner to me.
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Post » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:58 pm

Yeah ashley...I like lucid's idea..
But maybe neo is right about it not being enough....
Maybe you should charge for exporters that are made beyond the original html one. Not insane prices, but something...and once again, simply have the license forbid the creation of exporters for platforms that are already officially supported. I think people won't feel ripped off by the exporter thing, since if they don't need them they just won't pay for them.

also, if you could open a plugin store where you would sell community made plugins and take a percentage of profit for the price of hosting and the exposure you get. That way there would be a more constant revenue stream, that would grow larger with the community. The same could work for a much higher percentage with exporters on perhaps a case by case basis

Also, I agree about rewording. C2 is free for personal hobby use. $40 is two years of publishing rights for indie games with no strings attached. It isn't a trick of the wording. Its actually a more accurate description, since you still get upgrades for free versions
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