Quality Without Compromise

Discussion and feedback on Construct 2

Post » Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:20 am

For any new indie dev, I HIGHLY suggest you watch this presentation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xuAfhm3GCY

And this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ts6en9AVkI

It's from Butterscotch Shenanigans, also a new indie dev team but they are now on the road to success! Learn from their experience & wisdom.

I wish I had seen these videos before I made my own games.

ps. As a no name, no fame indie dev, do not EVER ask for an upfront payment for your game. You want to be KNOWN first, get your games into as many gamer's hands as possible. There's a great line from that video, you are NOT competing versus a cup of coffee (well, $0.99 is cheaper than coffee even!), but competing against an ocean of free games out there all wanting to get user attention. As a no fame dev, you are basically erecting a mountain obstacle by asking for upfront payment for your game.

Ads are a necessary evil, because I hate ads, you hate ads, but if nobody wants to pay for the game, then advertisers have to pay for it, thus, ads.
Last edited by Silverforce on Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post » Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:54 am

I don't believe in mobile gaming, but if I did I'd probably release a free demo and then charge for the full game, or just make sure the trailer is really good and then put out the full game; demos are known to decrease sales.

No ads. Ever.
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Post » Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:14 pm

Tokinsom wrote:I don't believe in mobile gaming, but if I did I'd probably release a free demo and then charge for the full game, or just make sure the trailer is really good and then put out the full game; demos are known to decrease sales.

No ads. Ever.


Apparently billions of people globally believe in mobile gaming. :D

Nearly all of them don't want to spend any $ doing it though. So someone has to pay for devs to work hard making games for them to enjoy. If they don't want to pay, then let the advertisers pay, pretty simple.

I see nothing wrong with Ads or IAPs, as long as its done well and as least intrusive as possible. If I load up a free game and the first thing I am greeted to is a full screen Ad, it's automatic uninstall. But If i play games and it has a banner ad in a non intrusive place (that doesn't interfere with gameplay), I'm fine with playing it. For those really good ones, I even spend $ on IAPs.

I'm firstly a gamer, and then a game dev so I can see it from both aspects.

Either way, highly recommend other mobile devs to view the videos I linked above.

ps. I don't run Ad Blockers on my PC browsers or phones. It's a filthy tool that deprives the content creator of much needed sustenance so that they are able to keep on making content that you want to browse on. It's actually a form of piracy. I am reminded of the collapse of the game studio Natsume everytime the issue of piracy is raised, because I loved their Rune Factory & Harvest Moon type games, but 99% of people pirate it and the studio died due to out of funds.
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Post » Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:14 pm

Aphrodite wrote:The ads in game are... Not only looking non professsional, but it is the way to render your game annoying, also people I know at least turn off their internet on their devices just to not have them, except if a special functionnality requires it (SAM in jetpack joyride is an exemple of that kind of functionnality). They are also, let's be honest, a money wh*re thing, people are not stupid, they know most developers do not choose the ads that will be displayed, that results in a belief like "they don t even care about the ads, they just want the money", even on a website ads aren't popular when they are justified, but in an application that you have downloaded, this is just wrong.

Up front payment is nice and legit, but fewer download:
-Not everyone is confident in paying for a game online
-Not everyone like to pay a non physical copy of the game
-the refund time on the playstore is ridiculous
-in some cases, the performance is actually a pretty big barrier "Will it work on my phone?"
-Will the game be worth it? (Popular belief: mobile games are short and not that great)

The last two ones being the most important for me, I actually bought a game on the playstore that was more than 1GB for approx. 20$, in that case it was worth it because I already knew it beforehand, the performances were the big question, it is actually fine on my device, but really even though I knew it wouod work, I was still worried.

In the case of C2, you have a pretty advantage: the user could test a demo on the web to know what to expect, heck if your game is free 100% you could even have the complete version on the web, and providing the app only for people that don't have a decent experience through their browsers.

The IAP one is actually pretty complex, it should be treated like dlc's, aka: If that is an important part of the game by itself, it should be already inside the game, if it is a skin or something, that is actually okay, also remember that a good player should be able to complete the game without needed to buy them, additionnal levels could be bought as packs of levels if there are a lot (but do not call your game free in that case, since some level aren't).

As for the completely free, no ads, no IAP games, the awnser is simple: just make your game popular enough to have a name, but I would think most people want to make money or even a living with games, if ads or abusive IAP are known as the only good ways to make money, then that would mostly tell that the market is not yet ready.


@LittleStain I see what you mean that is solid plan, I feel like too many think that if someone puts intrusive ads in their games they assume all the dev cares about is making money which isnt necessarily true.

@Aphrodite I agree with you on the points you made, ads are perceived as annoying and a way for users to counter then are to turn off data/airplane mode . Also having a game tat requires online access , in my belief, makes the player feel as if they don't really own the game which can caused mixed feelings about it even if its a good game . I do think that publishing a free online version of a game with reference to the mobile version is a solid plan, I might be wrong but: if one has a website they can post the web version of their game on it and within their website have ads so that way they still make money off of ads without being intrusive but still getting impressions. To Highlight two points you made -Performance & -Value Are you saying if a game performs well & has replay value you are willing to spend money on it ? If you choose to charge upfront for your games then the only way for people to really measure Performance & Value before purchasing is to watch gameplay video and read reviews & hear about it from word of mouth . People take for granted the reviews that are posted within the appstore so I think having reviews & ratings from other outside sources (Indie Game Mag, Gamespot, Ign, Youtube) would be more effective in determining the value (& even performance) of your game pre-purchase .


- IAP systems are pretty complex, at least thats how I perceive them to be, has anyone here ever used CocoonJS to create an IAP ? & if so how difficult was that to thoroughly complete ?


@Silverforce Thanks for sharing those links I'll make sure I check them out . Where do you stand on publishing a COMPLETELY FREE version first then rolling out an update (if the game gets 4 figure downloads) that includes an IAP or Ads . & which one would you go with if you were trying to only make one version of your game - Update with an IAP or Ads (Without being intrusive) ? With ads you're going to get paid

@Tokinsom you're missing out man, (As said by @Silverforce) "Billions" of people download & play mobile games . Not saying there isn't money to be made on the web but its a lot easier to get someone to pull out their phone & check out your game than it is to tell them to go to a website on their PC or Laptop and check out your game .
If "Demos are known to decrease sales" then providing a demo then full game on the appstore would be a compromise .

I think if/when a completely free game gets 4 figure downloads rolling out an update that includes non-intrusive ads , particularly a banner in the "Game Over" layout , would be a solid plan . CocoonJS provides the ability to implement ads or IAP with your games so I guess it depends on which ever one is more appealing to the dev (& by appealing I mean less difficult to thoroughly implement as envisioned)
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Post » Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:40 pm

I don't know if this is doable or how it can be done, but heres an idea:


What about creating only ONE single mobile version of your game, it would be completely Free to Play, if it starts to get 4 figure + downloads roll out an update that includes non-intrusive ads, particularly in the "Game Over" layout. But also an IAP system that allows them to purchase items & any item purchased automatically shuts off ads.

&

A bonus would be publishing a completely free web-based version of your game "to your website" with ads in the website & non-intrusively in the game (Within the "Game Over" layout) .
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Post » Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:05 pm

@EyezWidee, In my humble opinion, Advertisments & the
Paid Apps
are the most annoying thing. I suggest Game Developer should make
In-app purchases
if they are seeking for money, there next option would be
play then upgrade
so the player can test the first couple levels then buy the full version, (also annoying to me)
For me now, I like to submit all my games for free! I'm not seeking for money right now, I'm seeking to reach my goal of making a success game! But if all games were free, Game developers will starve :lol:
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Post » Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:21 pm

@EyezWidee

Having a free game becoming partially paid, or adding ads, can be seen as a betrayal from the user's point of view (which would be fair, they have chosen a free games without ads, they would have gotten something else at the end, not good).

Performance & -Value Are you saying if a game performs well & has replay value you are willing to spend money on it ? If you choose to charge upfront for your games then the only way for people to really measure Performance & Value before purchasing is to watch gameplay video and read reviews & hear about it from word of mouth . People take for granted the reviews that are posted within the appstore so I think having reviews & ratings from other outside sources (Indie Game Mag, Gamespot, Ign, Youtube) would be more effective in determining the value (& even performance) of your game pre-purchase .


Not only I am willing to, but I did spent money upfront in apps that I found worthy of my time (not a lot though, since I am uncomfortable with spending money on other things than food , but that is just me being weird), As I stated, having a free demo actually is a good way to let people play the game, and external reviews can also help the indecise people, some people actually says "everybody can make a good demo just to sell the game, it is not a good indicator", which should be covered by some reviews and gameplay videos, the performances is the really point that is hard to awnser: you cannot expect every game to run on every device, nor you can test all of them, the web demo by itself can sort of awnser that, but it is not accurate enough, which could lead to have also an executable demo just to test.
Game design is all about decomposing the core of your game so it becomes simple instructions.
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Post » Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:04 pm

@Naji I understand where you're coming from. Once your game becomes successful its time to make money.

@Aphrodite I understand the feeling of "betrayal" you mentioned but if a completely free game later gets an update with non intrusive ads (i.e Flappy birds has ads banners at the top of the game over layout not getting in the way of any significant content and not interupting gameplay) and an IAP system that when an item is bought automatically shuts off the non intrusive ads then the core gameplay experienced isn't compromised (In my opinion) therefore I don't see why people would stop play &/or uninstall the game because the main menu now has "$" IAP button and the game over screen has ads.

-True can't expect all games to work well on any device but sticking with key mobile phones iPhone 4 (&up), Samsung Galaxy S4 & S5, any Nokia Lumia & a 1280x720 or 720x1280 aspect ratio are at the core of making sure the game works universally .

I think if you are gonna charge up front at least give youtubers/reviewers free promo codes .

- "Having a free game becoming partially paid, or adding ads, can be seen as a betrayal from the user's point of view (which would be fair, they have chosen a free games without ads, they would have gotten something else at the end, not good).
"
- If you publish a game free to play, with no ads or iap system, I don't think that would be the reason why people downloaded it in the first play usually its because they heard about it, looks appealing, and no cost to try it out . Theres no collateral for their loyalty other than maybe a positive review & if theyre willing to give a positive review its because they like the GAME so if they feel betrayed by non-intrusive ads and an IAP in a later update that really have no effect on the core GAMEPLAY then they must have never really liked the game to begin with . They still have what they have which is a free game with no interference to that regard .
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Post » Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:53 pm

Turning off the internet just to avoid the ads will just result in developers having to add ways to deal with that.
Browser object, is online: set variable"canplaygame" to "yep"
else: set variable "canplaygame" to "nope"
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Post » Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:23 pm

@newt thats thing , dont you feel as though you don't really own it if it requires you to be connected online. But I agree that is a solid way to counter who try to avoid ads.
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