Questions about C2's capability

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Post » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:19 am

[QUOTE=megatronx] @Arima
Well is it difficult or not depends on your own take on it. I can tell you from my experience that if you don't approach it as difficult, but rather with attitude that it is simple but might be challenging, then the only thing that stands between you and the finished rpg are how you plan it in advance and how much time you are willing to put in to it. Also on the side note can't wait for your finished game! :)

@SamBeastie
TO be completely frank with you, 90% of your game sounds like the game I'm developing now. Even for the same mobile related reasons. Shocker. I guess I will have to come up with more new ideas now that will differentiate it from yours! [/QUOTE]

Hey, the more people trying to develop something better than an on-screen D-pad as a way of interacting with an RPG, the better. I honestly wish you the best of luck on that front...coming up with a metaphor I thought would work wasn't the easiest part of my work so far.
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Post » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:27 am

Thanks, you too. By metaphor do you mean a gameplay mechanics for the mobile?

So your system is for post apocalyptic rpg?
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Post » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:29 am

[QUOTE=megatronx] Thanks, you too. By metaphor do you mean a gameplay mechanics for the mobile?

So your system is for post apocalyptic rpg? [/QUOTE]

Yes, I mean how one controls the character or party's actions in-game.

And no, not post-apocalyptic.
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Post » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:41 am

@Arima : Your game seems great I must say ^^, and it is cool to have your opinion, since you have experience in this domain.

@SamBeastie : interlocking system in that case, means that your game will have parts that shouldn't be tied from a classic gameplay stand-point, I explain:

A sidescroller will (not (or rarely..) became a Turn based fighting game, to become right after that a chess game, then once again a side-scroller.

A RPG will(for example) be:
-An overworld exploration, with rare objects that spawns
-then a turnbased combat system, with mana management, life management, etc..
-then again an overworld exploration
-then a village with dialogues, shopping, etc..

you get the idea I think, RPG isn't really a game category, since a gameplay standard don't exist in them, and everypart is different, it is like doing 5 to 6 games in one, with one thing that mix them together, so the whole thing makes sense (e.g.:The grass in pokmon explain that there is a battle between pokmon, a little house in dragon heart (on game boy) makes you enter a point and clic view with people interaction, when before, it was more like a FPS overworld view).

Yes, RPGs are time consuming, yes, they are hard to do, but that's because RPGs aren't one simple game, but from 1 to "who knows" different style of gameplays and logics, tied in one block, called the "RPG game".
Game design is all about decomposing the core of your game so it becomes simple instructions.
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Post » Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:55 am

[QUOTE=SamBeastie]The reason I'm hesitant to use something like RPG Maker is that all of the games it produces seem to have a very Pokemon-style approach to the genre. There's a town area where the player directs an avatar to move around, sprites for every NPC, etc. I'm effectively eliminating that entire element of the game, since, for mobile, I find that the avatar movement mechanic is clunkier than what the HID allows for, and better paradigms for travel and world-interaction can be explored. [/QUOTE]

Don't get me wrong, while it's more difficult, that's why I'm using C2 and not rpg maker myself - rm is just too limited and with C2 I can make my game exactly how I want it.

[QUOTE]When you say that they have a lot of "interlocking systems" that have to come together, do you mean that in a technical sense (getting objects to instantiate, interact, etc, properly from a programming perspective), or in a mechanical sense (make sure that a +1 to attack doesn't stack in a certain way to make characters be able to one hit everything)?[/QUOTE]

Well, both, but mainly the technical side from my experience (you still have to program the rules, after all).

[QUOTE]If it's the latter, I've already developed the core system (Attributes, skills, to-hit stats, item balance, etc) to the point where I'm confident in the relative stability of the mathematics. You're not going to have a certain build that is superior to all others in every way. That's where my experience playing, modifying and more recently writing, tabletop (pen and paper) RPGs comes into play.[/QUOTE]

I'm not claiming your system isn't as good as you think it is, but you should probably be aware it's very common for people to code something and realize it doesn't play as well as they thought it would before they started - even people experienced in software and game development often encounter this problem, and is why some people like the idea of fluid game design rather than deciding everything about how the game is going to play before any code is written. Just something to be aware of that you might encounter.

[QUOTE=megatronx]Well is it difficult or not depends on your own take on it. I can tell you from my experience that if you don't approach it as difficult, but rather with attitude that it is simple but might be challenging, then the only thing that stands between you and the finished rpg are how you plan it in advance and how much time you are willing to put in to it. Also on the side note can't wait for your finished game! :)[/QUOTE]

Based upon the numerous reports I've read from other people attempting to develop RPGs and the very near unanimous opinions thereof that they simply are very close to the most difficult genre to make (only being beat out by stuff like mmorpgs and insanity like dwarf fortress) as well as my own experience already having tried to make loot pursuit with the attitude that it would be simple and having planned a ton of it in advance only to realize it didn't work how I thought it would once I tried to actually make it, I feel confident in objectively stating that attitude has nothing to do with it, RPGs are simply hard to make. Even with 5-6 years experience with construct (though I certainly don't claim to be the best C2 user, there are people who can easily code circles around me, I'm far better than I was when I started, having almost no idea what I was doing at all), there's just far too much involved in making an rpg to call it a simple task. I certainly understand how it would seem to be simple though, as I once thought that myself.

Here's one of many, many examples of how things turn out to be more difficult than they seem like they might be. Tapping on a unit to select them on a touchscreen in battle. Seems easy enough, right? On object touched. Except that tapping isn't very accurate compared to a mouse, and as such the user can miss a unit easily, especially if they're small enough, even more so on a small screen like a phone. Ok, so then instead I tried an 'on touch, pick closest unit' event - except there were times where I would try to tap the ui and a unit would be selected. Ok, so I put all clickable elements in to a 'clickable' family and pick the nearest clickable to the touch. Except unit hotspots are at their feet, resulting in inaccurate picking again since people try to aim for the center of the sprite. Ok, so I add invisible clickable objects at the center of each unit to pick the nearest from. Except some ui elements and units are large/small enough that even tapping what seems like close enough to them will still select something else sometimes because of the distance of the hotspots. Ok, so then I divided the screen up into regions and pick the nearest clickable object based upon what region of the screen was tapped on. Great! It worked flawlessly. Until I tried to use two touches at once.

Etc, etc... This is just one of a ton of examples.

Also, thanks for the interest in the game. :)Arima2013-07-06 06:58:15
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Post » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:37 pm

@OP
yes you can make the intended game. I will chime in that RPG's are by the hardest to make. However, that is often related to all the mini systems in place and the fact the common RPG design has more content than anygame.

However, if your game is more sandbox orientated I can see your project being more streamlined and easier to design.

And to give credit to the OP. If he has playtested the the number crunching game then he should be fine. providing he doesn't deviate from the rules into the the stanard eRPG tropes.

I think Knights of Pen and Paper does a great job to prove that a more classic RPG design, and simplified gameplay can still produce a pretty good rpg.
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Post » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:49 pm

It's interesting that you bring up tiny touch points in particular being an issue. That's part of the impetus behind my rethinking the entirety of how a player will interact with the game. My other experiences writing mobile apps revealed that touch points centering over small, movable objects *can* work well, but are not ideal, especially on 3.5-4.8 inch screens (it's been less of an issue on tablets, as far as I can tell). The focus for my CSCI studies in college was actually UX, which I always loved deconstructing and analyzing. When I approached the design I was going to use for this game, the first thing I looked at was how to make sure all the touch points were as big as possible while still letting the player see what was going on (or putting hidden menus in places that made sense).

I agree that Knights of Pen and Paper actually does a good job in a lot of ways, and it's probably the closest existing game to what I want, but I still have other ideas for how I want this to work, and how to make the experience (at least, at a basic level) easier for players to use.

As far as game mechanics go, the only question I still have left to answer is what gets "spent" to use "powers." In my original mockup, those things cost HP to do, which works fine on paper and in tabletop playtesting, and even adds an extra level of suspense for the players (I hashed out the battle system by writing it as a tabletop with physical dice rolls first, which will eventually be replaced with a math.Random() analogue), but may not make players feel good in a video game environment. I find HP costs more "hardcore" than having a separate mana pool or similar mechanic, and in my mind are more fun as a resource management mechanic, but only time will tell if that translates as a positive player experience to video games.

Keep in mind, I don't think this'll be easy...very few projects regarding game design are legitimately easy. The tabletop I want to publish as an actual tabletop has taken months longer than I thought it would, but it's also much more complex than the base system I've rigged up for this on multiple levels, more than one of which stem from the nature of the game as modular and extensible...if the most complex thing I'll have to deal with is the programming, I think I have a decent shot at making this work, though an additional programmer would be a welcome addition to the team...
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Post » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:30 pm

Funny how I'm thinking of those aspect too everyday. You're not from BN UK by any chance?
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