Recording gameplay issue (NWjs, youtubers)

Discussion and feedback on Construct 2

Post » Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:52 pm

@Silverforce

Thanks for the information. Do you know if its possible to download and install the 0.19 beta in the NWjsForC2 folder?

Or would that not work out of the box?
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Post » Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:54 pm

So we need a stable release from NWJS, and then we need to wait for Scirra to make a new NWJS for C2?
Which might also need a new C2 engine release, that might go beta first? hmmm
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Post » Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:08 pm

nw.js 0.18.5 works with --single-process when you add it as command line not arg in package.json

Edit: Test on Win7 64b with nw 32b and 64b
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Post » Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:15 am

Ashley wrote:It's not our problem if a screen recorder doesn't work. It's obviously a bug in the screen recorder app. I don't know what else to say. It's unreasonable to expect us to fix problems in other people's software.

Imagine if I made a microphone that could record most things, but not the sound of birds singing. Obviously I need to fix the microphone. It is crazy to suggest the birds are singing wrong.


Ashley, with all respect but comparisons like this one are wrong. You cannot compare a program to a bird. You know that. You cannot change the way an animal is giving a sound but you can change pretty much everything in the software.

You can go with other comparison like: A customer orders a burger in McDonalds and they give him a burger with rotten cheese inside. So he tells them that the cheese is rotten and McDonalds replies "Sorry, but we didn't make the cheese, we get it from Gouda, so please talk to Gouda. The burger itself is ok".

Obviously the customer will never go talk to Gouda, he will probably never buy in McDonalds again and will keep telling his friends that McDonald has rotten cheese in burgers. That's how customers see it.

But again... comparisons are bad. We are talking here about software. I don't know if it's C2 or NWjs fault or screen recorders fault, but I believe it is in your business to not ignore this issue.

If you say it's a screen recorder issue then I believe you as you know much more about C2 and all related soft than me. I have no reason not to believe you, but still I'd like to ask you to take care of the problem.

C2 community is outstanding and people here greatly support this game engine. You know that raw C2 would not be that attractive as it is with all the plugins made by the community etc. but there are things which community shouldn't (IMO) and probably can't solve.

Imagine if an ordinary developer write to the creators of some well known screen recorder. They see completely unknown developer (a unit) who has a recording problem with his indie game. They would most probably think that he is some newbie who can't handle the game engine correctly and send him back to game engine support as from their perspective, their software works well with all well known game engines for years now.

But If you would make an official email as the creator of the game engine who has big technical knowledge and is able to give them all the technical info they need, then it would surely sound more serious to them.

There's really not many popular screen recorders out there. I believe there's less than 10 which are popular and probably not more than 20 which are at least easy to find. So it's up to 20 emails.

And a word about my case as an example.

Within last 14 days I received requests from 69 youtubers who were willing to record a gameplay of my recently released game. Till today I have only 7 gameplay videos made by them. All those youtubers who managed to record it told me that they really struggeled to figure out how to do it. So there were only several stubborn guys. All the rest of those 69 were not that stubborn and they dumped it and took another game.

And just to clarify. Those were not 69 scams. Those were real youtubers validated by KeyMailer.co system where you need to prove that you own a particular youtube channel.

So I just wanted to highlight how serious this issue is.

And BTW, even if NWjs fix the "--single-process" option, it won't solve the problem with desktop apps completely as latest NWjs is still causing screen flickering (there's a separate topic for that), so for now the only safe to use NWjs is 0.13.2 where "--single-process" doesn't work.

If you decide to take care of this issue and you decide that you will contact those companies. I can help you to make a list of those recording softwares or help in any other needed way, just let me know.

Thanks
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Post » Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:21 am

Perhaps a better comparison would be the dependence on third parties such as Nwjs, is pretty much the same as the dependance of a game developer on third parties such as Youtubers.
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Post » Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:11 am

newt wrote:Perhaps a better comparison would be the dependence on third parties such as Nwjs, is pretty much the same as the dependance of a game developer on third parties such as Youtubers.


It's actually very serious if your game can't get played by YouTubers, because then a developer gets a smaller audience, which in turn gets less good attention towards Construct 2, possibly even some bad attention because YouTubers who do get the game to run are not afraid of complaining how hard it was to record (and glitches caused by recording).

It's actually very very very serious if people can't get your game to run when countless other games with the exact same hardware requirements work fine for them.

It's actually even more seriously Construct 2's concern when their "Create Games EASILY" tool is only capable of just that: "Creating games" but not letting people actually play them on the platforms they promise.

I know the solution is pretty much "wait for another third party and/or this third party to fix its things based on another third (fourth?) party", but these canary-in-the-coal-mine posts and threads should really influence the next steps that Construct takes. Competitors are offering native + HTML5 and even if their HTML5 implementation isn't the best, they have native exports to really make up for that.

Saying Scirra is a small company, so they can't make a serious export, is a chicken-and-egg situation. Scirra will stay small until people can make serious projects, and therefore they will be in a perpetual loop of small projects and limited export options.

HTML 5 on my gaming PC (GTX 1070, i7 6700k, SSD, 16GB DDR4 RAM) may work pretty decently, but the Construct Classic games still run smoother thanks to DirectX and native (and focusing on NVIDIA, as we often hear about all the driver bugs of AMD regardless of what game/engine/tech is trying to run on it).

Vulkan looks very promising, but that's still too new to actually have a customer base of current consumers on low to mid-level hardware (the perfect audience for 2D games).

I've literally received negative responses because my games don't work on Windows XP, let alone Mac OSX and Linux (too large for nw.js I guess?).

Everyone who has a perfectly valid complaint, based upon complaints from their actual customers, gets rewarded with the same condescending posts here "Oh you just coded this badly", or "Oh you can't expect that much from a company that literally did a fine native tool as free and open source when working part-time as students", while ignoring that there are many competitive tools out there that C2 developers have to switch to (or already are switching to) if and when they want proper mobile and console support.

Is this a tool for beginners or advanced developers? Web or PC/Console/Mobile ?

As an educational tool I love to recommend Construct 2, but for anything beyond a simple web game I painfully have to suggest tools that put more blockades between the artist and an interactive game, because they actually work.

And that's why, "recording gameplay issue" is a serious concern of Construct 2 and Construct 3 and Scirra. Because it all stems from their promise of a tool for professional game developers, yet ends up turning into something that is preventing actual playable/marketable/viral YouTube Let's Playing games.

Professionals don't have enough time to invest in every tool, they don't have time to port to every engine when they realize this one doesn't meet their needs. So Construct 2 becomes stuck in this strange identity crisis, and echo chamber, where the real life results (games on Steam, games on Console, sales of games and ratings) don't stack up to the games made in the less pleasant-to-use engines that export native.

Not being able to record your screen is almost a death sentence to an indie game trying to get recognition.

Edit: Also, before the "But professionals have used Construct 2 to make things, even you with your game on Steam"-type arguments, a professional can use many different tools to achieve great results with varying levels of pain and suffering (see: Unbelievably Realistic Microsoft Paint Art videos scattered across YouTube).

That a professional can do some very specific great games in Construct 2 therefore does not mean that Construct 2 is actually/currently a professional tool for making games, especially without proper console export and industry adoption. The major devs of C2 games all ended up hiring someone (or re-writing from scratch in-house in other engines) to port to consoles, even WiiU in some cases due to poor performance/missing WebGL support.
Last edited by Jayjay on Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:02 am, edited 3 times in total.
"Construct 4 lets YOU make advanced games! (they wont run anywhere)" Construct Classic - Examples Kit Dropbox is a pile of trash and if you need my old files PM me! :)
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Post » Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:29 am

I couldn't say it any better, no seriously good job jayjay. :!:

*grabs popcorn while waiting for the response*
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Post » Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:26 am

I always wanted to say something like you two guys said but my English isn't sufficient. XD

Funny thing is Bandicam recognises the editor rather than preview or in game.
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Post » Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:31 am

If one of the platforms breaks Scirra still has a viable product, so the native argument fails against that alone.
And most of those other platforms can probably do screen capture.

Ashley can't fix the issues with Nwjs.
You can't tell Youtubers what software to use, but you can give them something else to record.

The argument of C2 not being professional might carry more weight if I hadn't just saw a youtuber describe Unity as "up and coming".

I think the real solution here would be to get rid of the tubers.
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Post » Fri Nov 04, 2016 12:11 pm

I agree with you guys, and your concerns are 100% valid in my opinion.
Scirra's dependence of 3rd party exporters have created SO many problems from the very beginning, and are still a pain in the a**.

I've canceled most of our games we developed due to bad performance, bugs and problems with exporting/compiling. We have had problems with Mobile, Steam, and Facebook games.
(i could write down all the problems we have encountered, but that would probably take an hour or two)

We have one game left. And that's impossible to release for our publisher because Nw.js has bugs and errors.

I think I'm slowly gonna move away from C2 as a game engine and look for new opportunities. I simply don't have the time anymore.

I don't really care about people's arguments. I know for a fact that there are huge problems, everyone does.
Scirra's C3 should have native exporting, no matter what excuses they might have.


But it's been a great time here and i have definitely enjoyed it, I just hope that C3 will make things right.
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