[Request] BulletML

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Post » Tue May 13, 2014 2:03 pm

Kyatric wrote:
Ludonaut wrote:I'm not a programmer


So that's why you seem to be missing the point of all the answers in this thread so far.

[...] the truth to the matter is you have no clue what you're talking about and it's not because you don't like the answers you've been given that those answers aren't helpful.
They are. You just don't want to put the effort in.


That is incredibly condescending. I'm not a programmer, therefore I cannot possibly understand anything about programming? Come on.

I think you're missing the point of me asking for a plugin. I know it could also be done with a bunch of complicated events, sub-events and whatnot. But oh hey, there is this language for directly defining complex object movements (BulletML can be used for a lot more than just shmups, you know) so I don't have to. Neat! I'll go ask on the forums if someone's willing to help me.

...

"can't be done because arbitrary reason X, you can do this with events, you have no idea what you're talking about."

Geez.
Last edited by Ludonaut on Tue May 13, 2014 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post » Tue May 13, 2014 2:07 pm

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Post » Tue May 13, 2014 2:28 pm

Ludonaut wrote:That is incredibly condescending. I'm not a programmer, therefore I cannot possibly understand anything about programming? Come on.

It's not my fault if your posts so far let that appear.



Ludonaut wrote:I think you're missing the point of me asking for a plugin. [...] so I don't have to.

Oh so that's the part where I talked about you don't wanting to put the effort in. Yes, I think I'm missing the point...



Ludonaut wrote:"can't be done because arbitrary reason X

True, technology/software implementation is completely arbitrary.
To make an analogy, you asked if we could make a car fly, we said no because of technology/design reasons and you point out an helicopter and stress that it does fly, and so we're just mean and not willing to help out.

You might consider me condescending, I'm just pointing out what you have posted.
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Post » Tue May 13, 2014 2:34 pm

Its not that hard really, especially when you consider we have the bullet object, in fact I would wager that you can do more from eventing than you could using xml.
Besides, the drawbacks are pretty big:
A: A ton of objects in javascript is a bad idea to begin with.
B: Xml would require additional libraries, Ios, Ie, etc. don't support it.
C: You are limited to what commands are available to Bml, whereas in C2 you can do what ever you like, hence my question of what can it do that C2 can't.

Try it on your own, you might like it. If you need suggestions... ask away.
Complaining that nobody wants to make you something, bad idea.
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Post » Tue May 13, 2014 3:26 pm

Kyatric wrote:You might consider me condescending, I'm just pointing out what you have posted.


Here's a hint: There are people who, even though they might have some coding experience (or just feel like they're not up to the task), are not comfortable calling themselves programmers. Ask yourself why that would be.

--

I realize you guys must be getting a lot of 12 year olds asking "how maek MMORPG" questions.

I'm not asking because I want someone to do all the work for me, (believe me, even if I would, I'd never have even signed up on this forum) I'm asking because I know this could be done in a way which would benefit everyone working with C2. A plugin would make a lot of cool stuff possible (again, see for yourself), but above all enable people like me, who lack the time or the skills to be a Real Coder™ to make better games. Which Construct is all about, I think.

Unfortunately, you have decided to meet this idea with hostility and FUD, derailing the thread and apparently have other priorities besides crushing every chance of someone even wanting to help me, so I'm off doing this by myself. Sadly, in a way which benefits no one.

So thanks, again, for nothing.
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Post » Tue May 13, 2014 4:32 pm

Once again, I think you're suffering from a misconception of what a plugin would really do for you as well as what bulletXML really is. It is a format, not a language.
I think you expect a "feed the plugin a bulletXML sheet and it will spit bullet patterns on the screen".
And in that you are wrong. And the stuff you keep linking just displays that.

A plugin would maybe give you specific events and triggers but you still would have to interface those in the event sheet/project objects/behaviors like Newt mentioned in his previous answer.
So it kinda does defeat the purpose of an external plugin anyway. You could not just have a "fits all cases" plugin.

You can try to make me look as the bad guy, but the way you've posted all over this thread blaming internet forums rather than actually trying to understand the answers given don't really stand.
And if you were SO interested in "the common good" you wouldn't be "threatening" of "keeping it to yourself".

Anyway good luck with your project.
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Post » Tue May 13, 2014 8:59 pm

Kyatric wrote:Once again, I think you're suffering from a misconception of what a plugin would really do for you as well as what bulletXML really is. It is a format, not a language.
I think you expect a "feed the plugin a bulletXML sheet and it will spit bullet patterns on the screen".
And in that you are wrong. And the stuff you keep linking just displays that.


It's BulletML, not BulletXML, and I don't believe that for a second. So maybe you're right. Maybe I really don't understand.

I have given up on this thread, but just for fun, I'll try and sum this up from my perspective:

  • BulletML is, by definition, a markup language.
  • "It can also be done with just events" is not a viable argument. There is a large library of well-known patterns written in BulletML on the internet. The point is to make these available for use in Construct 2.
  • I see no reason why it would be impossible to have a plugin read a pattern file and execute it. E.g. the Unity wrapper does just that.
  • If this is a bad idea, explain this Construct Classic plugin, or the Unity stuff.
  • It can obviously be done in JavaScript, as evidenced by the bulletml.js demos. C2 is also JS-based. The C2 engine and modern browsers can handle hundreds of objects without breaking a sweat. (Though some of the more advanced patterns need to handle thousands of on-screen bullets, which would require optimization out of scope of a plugin.)
  • Maybe we are just facing a terminology problem and this could be a custom behavior instead of a plugin?

Kyatric wrote:And if you were SO interested in "the common good" you wouldn't be "threatening" of "keeping it to yourself".


I'm not. I said this could be done in a way that benefits everyone, with the help of a capable programmer.

Kyatric wrote:Anyway good luck with your project.


There is no project. Just a guy with an idea who was naive enough to ask for help.
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Post » Tue May 13, 2014 9:29 pm

To start the CC plug used a vertex, the smallest thing you can make graphically. Basically it was like a particle, a single point that only had the restrictions of the gpu, rather than what we have of canvas2d.
Secondly, to produce a plug would require someone to figure out how to convert those xml calls into actual code that C2 can use, its not "oh hey just add this file".
Thirdly if all you wanted was access to some premade patterns you could convert those xml files to json, https://www.google.com/#q=xml+to+json and figure out how to replicate those calls in events.
C2 uses json, because its a file type all the platforms C2 works on, works on.
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Post » Tue May 13, 2014 9:59 pm

newt wrote:to produce a plug would require someone to figure out how to convert those xml calls into actual code that C2 can use, its not "oh hey just add this file".


I know. I thought that was clear from the beginning.

newt wrote:if all you wanted was access to some premade patterns you could convert those xml files to json, https://www.google.com/#q=xml+to+json and figure out how to replicate those calls in events.
C2 uses json, because its a file type all the platforms C2 works on, works on.


Not all I wanted of course, 'twas just another argument. Surely a plugin could also convert-to-json at project export to circumvent the xml platform restrictions? But thanks, this was the first answer that was actually helpful.
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Post » Wed May 14, 2014 12:15 pm

Ludonaut wrote:Maybe I really don't understand.

You don't and here's why :

Ludonaut wrote:"It can also be done with just events" is not a viable argument. There is a large library of well-known patterns written in BulletML on the internet. The point is to make these available for use in Construct 2.

It's a perfectly viable argument. I'm not saying to replace the xml file with events but the actual "translation" of those files which is what a plugin supposedly would do. And that's where you are missing the point of ALL my answers so far !

Ludonaut wrote:I see no reason why it would be impossible to have a plugin read a pattern file and execute it. E.g. the Unity wrapper does just that.

Helicopter vs car.
Unity is not C2, it's not designed and built the same way.
So what works in one does not necessary works in the other as well.
And see the next answer for further reasons...

Ludonaut wrote:It can obviously be done in JavaScript, as evidenced by the bulletml.js demos. C2 is also JS-based. The C2 engine and modern browsers can handle hundreds of objects without breaking a sweat. (Though some of the more advanced patterns need to handle thousands of on-screen bullets, which would require optimization out of scope of a plugin.)

A C2 plugin still relies on the objects in a C2 project. Your plugin won't magically spawn thousands of sprite objects from the void. Especially if you want after to handle their collisions or keep some handling on those objects.

So even if C2 plugins are indeed written in JavaScript, it's not because there is some JS SDK of some feature that it can necessary be turned into a C2 plugin.
And that's why the reading/translating of the xml file should rather be done in events, as mentioned already times and times again in Newt's and my posts.

So strangely enough, a few posts ago when I mentioned you had no clue/did not understand what you were asking, seems I was right. And all along I took the time to answer your questions and try to help/educate you while all you were doing was insulting me and this community, rambling about things you did not get in the first place.

I'm done as well. Enough time lost, enough energy spent.
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