Several doubts Scirra

For questions about using Classic.

Post » Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:41 pm

I'll backflip you into the sun. :twisted:
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Post » Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:00 pm

[quote="deadeye":1oagenhw]I really don't understand questions like these. It's like being handed a box of crayons, and the first thing you say is "Hmm... nice crayons and all, but could I draw a cat with these crayons? Because I seriously doubt someone could draw a cat with these crayons."

It's like you're trying to trip us up. "Oh, hehe... cats, you say? Oh my, how embarrassing! No, I'm sorry, you couldn't possibly draw a cat with these crayons. A fire truck, maybe, but definitely no cats."

A cat has nothing to do with crayons, and "spells and teleporting" have nothing to do with programming a game. You can use the crayons to draw whatever you want, and you can use Construct to make whatever you want. If you couldn't draw cats, they wouldn't be very good crayons, would they?

A better question would be "Can these crayons draw with infrared light?" And the answer is YES THEY CAN! THEY ARE MAGIC CRAYONS! :shock:

And guess what? Construct can draw with infrared light, too... someone wrote a WiiMote plugin. But no, there is no way to export your game to XBOX360.[/quote:1oagenhw]

The easier a program is to use, the more you're going to get questions like these. Why? Because it attracts people who aren't programmers (nobody who uses programs like these, are programmers, there's no programming involved and you're not a programmer by using them, it's like a modder calling himself a developer, or a college student with no real world experience, claiming they know better, it's a bit of a joke, haha) The guys who wrote construct, they're programmers. At the same time, the easier a program is to use, the more limitations appear, simply because the creators can't think of everything or prepare for everything, and all software has limitations. Therefore it's a perfectly valid post to make, asking if this or that can be done. Especially when people run around claiming construct can do everything, when the reality of it is, it can't.

So it might piss people off to hear "oh oh can you make spells n shit with it?" but if you think about it, it's a completely normal question for someone who's never used it before to ask. They aren't programmers, that's why they're here using something like this, and not on a C++ forum. We're talking people off the street, the average joe, probably with little or no experience, sees something that says you can make games with no programming, what do you expect from them? They're attracted by the appeal of making games, but may or may not know what's involved. So to them, a regular user with no programming experience or developer experience, a characters "spell" is a spell, not a collection of events and variables. Yes I admit, reading instructions, wiki pages, manuals would answer a lot of the questions that get asked. But really, you can ask people to do that all you want, it's a known FACT that most simply wont. It's "so much easier and quicker" to ask on a forum.. supposedly, lol. It's been that way for years, and it wont change for a long time.

Not to mention the fact that a complicated programming type answer is utterly useless to someone with no programming knowledge, when all they wanted to know is "can it do that?", they can go into details and learn how later. They just want a readable understandable answer for now.

Seriously, there is a very real problem with newbie hate and elitism on these forums and it's unwarranted and happening a lot.

Programmers (e.g. Ashley, David and the plugin creators)
Developers (people with real commercial experience)
Modders (people who mod game engines or create TC's)
Game Makers <-- this is where construct and other apps like it are, along with us, the users.

We all use construct, we're all in the same boat, we're all here for the same reason, to make games without the need to program, and the majority aren't going to be crack coders or immediately familiar with the event system "scripting" that exists in the application OR what construct is capable of, that's why many are here, to make games without having to learn a programming language to do it, that's the whole point of an application like this, to make it easier, to appeal to the masses where the prospect of using C/C++/C# etc. is too daunting or beyond the grasp of the user. This appeals to both the guy off the street looking for an easy way to make games just for the fun of it, or those with years of real experience in commercial game development (as is the case with myself and at least one other user I'm aware of on the forum) who either can't program or don't have the time/interest, or have worked with enough programmers to know how infuriating they are to work with closely on a project ;) and wish to avoid them as much as possible. There's going to be a mix of all kinds of users on here, which means a mix of all level of questions and queries, and not everyone is going to be a mathematical genius.

If the user is from the modding community (which is going to be very common), then expect lots of "can it do this and that" questions because that's what they're used to. DaviX is likely a modder, probably played around with modding Source or the Crytek engines, or maybe dabbled with UDK. All those are setup to begin with for a particular kind of game and the only real part of them seen by many, is building maps and making events (can you see the confusion here now?) make a map, add a player start, add a few objects to do this or that, bit of scripting for creating events, and then compile and run, simples. If that's a users only real experience, then they're going to assume construct is the same.

As for his "can you make games for the Xbox360" question. No, I don't think you should look down on that either, for the above reasons, to someone off the street, that's a perfectly valid question too (yes it could be answered easily with research but again, the "it's quicker to ask on forums" syndrome comes into play, blame the internet and the I want it now generation, lol). But not everyone will know automatically if something can or can't be done, after all, Xbox IS practically a PC, and there are other apps out there capable of it in some way (legality aside), there are many cases of homebrew games being made for consoles, and while doing so is not easy, fans of that will always be looking for an easier way to do it.


Doesn't construct have a FAQ somewhere? Which can be linked to when someone first posts, which will cover all the common questions people ask, and give decent answers to them, both advanced and basic. So they don't have to ask on here and be made to feel unwanted or thick, just because they didn't know. I think that would be more beneficial than getting angry with people.
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Post » Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:06 pm

I don't think this is elitism or newbie hating, it's just the answer to "Can I make X?" is almost always simply "yes".

As for the FAQ: in this forum is the sticky Are you new? READ FIRST! which links to the FAQ which has answers for questions like Can Construct create (insert genre here) games? and Will Construct be able to export to Mac/Linux/XBOX? which might be useful for the OP.
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Post » Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:36 pm

[quote="Lost my Keys":h3qngz6l]So it might piss people off to hear "oh oh can you make spells n shit with it?" but if you think about it, it's a completely normal question

...

Seriously, there is a very real problem with newbie hate and elitism on these forums and it's unwarranted and happening a lot.[/quote:h3qngz6l]

There's no anger and no hate here, dude. Except maybe over being accused of anger and hate. I fail to see where my response was either angry or hateful.

I said what I said because I really don't understand the reasoning behind those kinds of questions. They don't seem like "normal questions" to me at all.

Technical questions like "can you export to XBOX" aren't what are confusing me. It's a legit question. Sure, you can find the answer on your own pretty easily, but whatever. Simple questions like "can you play sounds" are pretty easy to find answers to as well, but that still doesn't phase me.

It's when you ask stuff like "can you make a game where a guy backflips and chops off someone's ear" that I think maybe you should think about it for a minute before you ask, is all. It's not a technical question about the program's capabilities... it's a design question. It really is like asking "can you draw a cat with these crayons." The answer is pretty obviously yes, you can.
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Post » Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:48 pm

[quote="deadeye":1b6rx187][quote="Lost my Keys":1b6rx187]So it might piss people off to hear "oh oh can you make spells n s**t with it?" but if you think about it, it's a completely normal question

...

Seriously, there is a very real problem with newbie hate and elitism on these forums and it's unwarranted and happening a lot.[/quote:1b6rx187]

There's no anger and no hate here, dude. Except maybe over being accused of anger and hate. I fail to see where my response was either angry or hateful.

I said what I said because I really don't understand the reasoning behind those kinds of questions. They don't seem like "normal questions" to me at all.

Technical questions like "can you export to XBOX" aren't what are confusing me. It's a legit question. Sure, you can find the answer on your own pretty easily, but whatever. Simple questions like "can you play sounds" are pretty easy to find answers to as well, but that still doesn't phase me.

It's when you ask stuff like "can you make a game where a guy backflips and chops off someone's ear" that I think maybe you should think about it for a minute before you ask, is all. It's not a technical question about the program's capabilities... it's a design question. It really is like asking "can you draw a cat with these crayons." The answer is pretty obviously yes, you can.[/quote:1b6rx187]

Very true, but it's never as black and white as that. To use your crayon cat analogy. Yes, you can draw a cat with these crayons. But can they?

BTW I vote for Constructs new logo to be a crayon cat, I think it would be perfect and awesome and Gamemaker wont copy that one ;)
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Post » Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:58 pm

[quote="Lost my Keys":1gtktgz2]Very true, but it's never as black and white as that. To use your crayon cat analogy. Yes, you can draw a cat with these crayons. But can they?[/quote:1gtktgz2]

Yes, they can. If it's a shitty looking cat that's their own fault. Just because you can hold a crayon doesn't mean you can hang with Rembrandt. You gotta get some learnin in you first.
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Post » Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:59 pm

I submit that on the very first start the Ghost Shooter tut should be loaded.
You could also add a link to the cap that would open up a html version of the tut, along with bla, bla, please take the tut first, and if you have any questions please refer to the faq, and forum.
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Post » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:12 am

[quote="deadeye":34y2h6hn][quote="Lost my Keys":34y2h6hn]Very true, but it's never as black and white as that. To use your crayon cat analogy. Yes, you can draw a cat with these crayons. But can they?[/quote:34y2h6hn]

Yes, they can. If it's a shitty looking cat that's their own fault. Just because you can hold a crayon doesn't mean you can hang with Rembrandt. You gotta get some learnin in you first.[/quote:34y2h6hn]

lol! Sorry, that just gave me the funniest mental image of Rembrandt "hangin" with his homies on some Amsterdam street corner.

[quote="newt":34y2h6hn]I submit that on the very first start the Ghost Shooter tut should be loaded.
You could also add a link to the cap that would open up a html version of the tut, along with bla, bla, please take the tut first, and if you have any questions please refer to the faq, and forum.[/quote:34y2h6hn]

That's a really good idea.

Could make it so you can't get rid of it until you take a test asking basic questions.. Ok my idea isn't so good and would never happen, but wouldn't we all secretly like it, lol.
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Post » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:18 am

[quote:18ittyav]That's a really good idea.

Could make it so you can't get rid of it until you take a test asking basic questions.. Ok my idea isn't so good and would never happen, but wouldn't we all secretly like it, lol.[/quote:18ittyav]

No but you could put some test type questions on the forum's "are you human" test.

Also given the html object, and download plugs we could... (in theory) make a really nice interactive tutorial, that new users would want to take.
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Post » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:59 am

[quote="Lost my Keys":1q8qt7m3]nobody who uses programs like these, are programmers, there's no programming involved and you're not a programmer by using them, it's like a modder calling himself a developer, or a college student with no real world experience, claiming they know better, it's a bit of a joke, haha[/quote:1q8qt7m3]

I have to disagree. I don't think a person needs to use a programming language to program. An if/then statement is the same basic concept in a language as in construct. I can't program in any sort of programming language at all, and yet after learning construct, not only can I talk game programming with professional game programmers, they can and have suggested things to me, without having used construct - and their suggestions work. I can understand what they're talking about most of the time because construct uses so many of the same functions. While construct simplifies the process enormously, it's still essentially the same thing, using a lot of the same concepts.

Also, as I think you know, you don't need to be at a major company or use a programming language to be a game developer. Honestly, I don't like how you seem to consider us 'bottom of the barrel' developers in your tone with parts of this post. I've been working on my RPG for 10 months, and let me tell you, it is a LOT of work. Construct may not be coding completely from scratch, but really, how different is it from using an engine of some sort that does a lot of the work for you? Engines take years to develop, and if your goal is to make games, I hear even from pro developers, you might as well use some other engine and get to the game.

[quote:1q8qt7m3]Especially when people run around claiming construct can do everything, when the reality of it is, it can't.[/quote:1q8qt7m3]

With the exception of online/gamepad use, I don't think I've found any 2d games that couldn't be made in construct (there are obviously a lot of 2d games I haven't played, though). The only games that I've found that you couldn't remake in their entirety are ones that rely on the speed of code (which is obviously faster than interpreting events), but even those games could be made with a few thousand less spaceships in them, for example.

Even if there are games out there that you couldn't make in construct, it can still be said that construct can make any TYPE of 2D game.

[quote:1q8qt7m3]Programmers (e.g. Ashley, David and the plugin creators)
Developers (people with real commercial experience)
Modders (people who mod game engines or create TC's)
Game Makers <-- this is where construct and other apps like it are, along with us, the users.[/quote:1q8qt7m3]

I don't think any group should be listed as 'below' or 'above' any other. We're all doing the same thing. Making games. The more I talk to people about it, the more I find people, and developers, most of the time don't care what you make a game with. They care that the game is awesome.

I disagree about loading the tutorial automatically, but perhaps asking if the user would like a tutorial once would work.
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