Several doubts Scirra

For questions about using Classic.

Post » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:59 am

[quote="Lost my Keys":1q8qt7m3]nobody who uses programs like these, are programmers, there's no programming involved and you're not a programmer by using them, it's like a modder calling himself a developer, or a college student with no real world experience, claiming they know better, it's a bit of a joke, haha[/quote:1q8qt7m3]

I have to disagree. I don't think a person needs to use a programming language to program. An if/then statement is the same basic concept in a language as in construct. I can't program in any sort of programming language at all, and yet after learning construct, not only can I talk game programming with professional game programmers, they can and have suggested things to me, without having used construct - and their suggestions work. I can understand what they're talking about most of the time because construct uses so many of the same functions. While construct simplifies the process enormously, it's still essentially the same thing, using a lot of the same concepts.

Also, as I think you know, you don't need to be at a major company or use a programming language to be a game developer. Honestly, I don't like how you seem to consider us 'bottom of the barrel' developers in your tone with parts of this post. I've been working on my RPG for 10 months, and let me tell you, it is a LOT of work. Construct may not be coding completely from scratch, but really, how different is it from using an engine of some sort that does a lot of the work for you? Engines take years to develop, and if your goal is to make games, I hear even from pro developers, you might as well use some other engine and get to the game.

[quote:1q8qt7m3]Especially when people run around claiming construct can do everything, when the reality of it is, it can't.[/quote:1q8qt7m3]

With the exception of online/gamepad use, I don't think I've found any 2d games that couldn't be made in construct (there are obviously a lot of 2d games I haven't played, though). The only games that I've found that you couldn't remake in their entirety are ones that rely on the speed of code (which is obviously faster than interpreting events), but even those games could be made with a few thousand less spaceships in them, for example.

Even if there are games out there that you couldn't make in construct, it can still be said that construct can make any TYPE of 2D game.

[quote:1q8qt7m3]Programmers (e.g. Ashley, David and the plugin creators)
Developers (people with real commercial experience)
Modders (people who mod game engines or create TC's)
Game Makers <-- this is where construct and other apps like it are, along with us, the users.[/quote:1q8qt7m3]

I don't think any group should be listed as 'below' or 'above' any other. We're all doing the same thing. Making games. The more I talk to people about it, the more I find people, and developers, most of the time don't care what you make a game with. They care that the game is awesome.

I disagree about loading the tutorial automatically, but perhaps asking if the user would like a tutorial once would work.
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Post » Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:09 am

actually opening up a tutorial .cap on first run sounds like a very good idea to me.

though perhaps a new one should be made? Dunno.

About hating on newbies no, just hating on people that don't even attempt to learn before asking stuff :P (me, at least. Software is free, there's wiki, there's forum, there's tutorials... and yet people skip all those? grumble)

About WALL OF TEXT: tl;dr
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Post » Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:12 am

[quote="Arima":3govchlr]I have to disagree. I don't think a person needs to use a programming language to program. An if/then statement is the same basic concept in a language as in construct. I can't program in any sort of programming language at all, and yet after learning construct, not only can I talk game programming with professional game programmers, they can and have suggested things to me, without having used construct - and their suggestions work. I can understand what they're talking about most of the time because construct uses so many of the same functions. While construct simplifies the process enormously, it's still essentially the same thing, using a lot of the same concepts.[/quote:3govchlr]

Understanding someone and being able to do it yourself are two different things though. I, like a lot of people, can understand most spoken languages to a point. I'll recognize words, phrases, take the situation in context and most of the time understand the general gist of what's being said. But if you asked me to speak German etc. I'd just look at you with a blank stare and be unable to. Does that make me a linguist? No. Same applies to programming, I understand it enough to know how it works, can follow it (to a point), make small changes and know the limitations etc. But I couldn't sit down and program. I certainly wouldn't call myself a programmer.

[quote:3govchlr]With the exception of online/gamepad use, I don't think I've found any 2d games that couldn't be made in construct (there are obviously a lot of 2d games I haven't played, though). The only games that I've found that you couldn't remake in their entirety are ones that rely on the speed of code (which is obviously faster than interpreting events), but even those games could be made with a few thousand less spaceships in them, for example.

Even if there are games out there that you couldn't make in construct, it can still be said that construct can make any TYPE of 2D game.[/quote:3govchlr]

Well I admit I probably didn't word it so well when I wrote that originally, my bad. The point I was trying to get across as was explained better using deadeye's crayon cat. Is people don't really care IF something is possible, it's can THEY do it. That's what I believe is the question they really want, the question we all really want. They hear construct and others are easy to use, and that's what they look for, a tool to make life easier and more their level of experience. But that leads to another problem. How the heck will anyone else know if something is possible for another person or not? :D Hence the butting of heads.

[quote="Madster":3govchlr]actually opening up a tutorial .cap on first run sounds like a very good idea to me.

though perhaps a new one should be made? Dunno.[/quote:3govchlr]

Same, plus newts suggestion for the are you human questions (I've seen that done on some other forum once, and at the very least it will make you search for the answer if you don't know it).

I think a forced tutorial WILL annoy some people, but will be better for all in the long run. Plus, don't most games actually force a tutorial on you the first time around, with few allowing it to be skipped. So I suppose really it's not that bad of a thing, and it would be there to help people, and who knows, even the pro's might learn the odd thing or two from it?

[quote:3govchlr]About hating on newbies no, just hating on people that don't even attempt to learn before asking stuff :P (me, at least. Software is free, there's wiki, there's forum, there's tutorials... and yet people skip all those? grumble)[/quote:3govchlr]

That just seems to be the way it is these days, the majority won't read documentation and will instead ask on forums, because it's less work than researching the answer yourself. Happens with everything, everywhere, and I don't see it changing.

[quote:3govchlr]
About WALL OF TEXT: tl;dr[/quote:3govchlr]

Bah lol :P
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Post » Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:13 am

Wow, I missed a lot of stuff in LmK's original post because... well, tl;dr :P

[quote="Arima":128mkdmw]The more I talk to people about it, the more I find people, and developers, most of the time don't care what you make a game with. They care that the game is awesome.[/quote:128mkdmw]

Agreed. Go to TIGSource. It's a community where a good deal of the indie game crowd hangs out. Stuff gets made there from all kinds of people, from "real coders" to folks who use MMF. Try bashing on GameMaker there and see how far it gets you. It's not what you use, or how much time you spent learning it... it's what you make. That's all that matters. And when it comes to making games, being able to call yourself a programmer isn't anywhere near as useful as being able to call yourself a game designer.

[quote="Lost my Keys":128mkdmw]But if you asked me to speak German etc. I'd just look at you with a blank stare and be unable to.[/quote:128mkdmw]

That's nobody's fault but your own. It's certainly not mine, or the Germans. You can learn to speak German if you want. You can learn to draw a cat if you want. You can learn to design a game if you want... even if the game involves backflipping. Even if the game is about drawing German cats with infrared crayons while backflipping into the sun.

Ah, I'm getting off the point.

[quote="Lost my Keys":128mkdmw]...people don't really care IF something is possible, it's can THEY do it. That's what I believe is the question they really want, the question we all really want.[/quote:128mkdmw]

Can it be done? Yes. Can anyone do it? Dunno. That's a question you need to ask yourself. If you try, and stick with it, the answer will probably be yes. A better question might be "how do I do it?" An even better one might be "will I do it?"
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Post » Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:17 am

An even better question is "Do I feel lucky".

Well do ya? PUNK?
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Post » Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:40 am

[quote="Madster":3br40gcr]An even better question is "Do I feel lucky".

Well do ya? PUNK?[/quote:3br40gcr]
No, :cry: I don't sorry.
Please don't shoot me with that big ass gun!
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Post » Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:57 am

Lately I have been learning Ruby because I felt limited by Construct and other game making engines. I am familiar with some programming concepts and game design, however I couldn't program past "Hello world!" before. Now I'm developing a would-be-roguelike and learning a great deal about game development as well. Granted, there were many snags on the way, but I've had professional help to nudge me into the right direction. Also the Computer Science classes many a year ago may have helped with the foundation, but well, that was in Oberon and programs were pretty much about typing text or outputting results of some math stuff.

You, too, can learn to program or, more accurately, script if you devote some of your time and mind to it. Sometimes I still wake up in middle of a night with an epiphany regarding to my little project.

The only limit is your own will and commitment. I've read stories about people who finally acquired driving licence after hundreds of failed tests. I'm sure I, too, will eventually succeed if I keep climbing back into the saddle.

Bottom line: It all depends on how much effort you are willing to put in.
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Post » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:29 am

Sorry for my ignorance :cry:

But e been looking for programs to raise my game and just wanted to know if Scirra Construct would be a good candidate :P

The truth, I really like the program, but I'm still a rookie
Yesterday publish the program on my forum and was successful, so that a user decided to translate it into Spanish, I hope that you will not amount :D

@Ashley: thanks for the tutorials, I have been very helpful.


PD: I'm Spanish, sorry for my bad English =P
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Post » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:40 pm

[quote="DaviX":12iehxgj]Sorry for my ignorance :cry:

But e been looking for programs to raise my game and just wanted to know if Scirra Construct would be a good candidate :P

The truth, I really like the program, but I'm still a rookie[/quote:12iehxgj]

Nah, please don't feel like that. This thread just went a little out of control for a moment. We're nice folks, really :)

Anyway, we'll be here to help if you get stuck.
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