So Being A Loyal Paid Customer Gets me A Kick In the Balls?

Post » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:13 pm

Tom wrote:I've explained this in another thread, but am happy to talk about it again.

From when we announce Construct 3 to when we release Construct 3 is a period of many months. During this period, a risk we identified in advance would be that everyone stops buying Construct 2 to wait for Construct 3. If this happened, we would be haemorrhaging money which would put a lot of financial stress on the business.

It's a risk we obviously wanted to avoid, so we decided to let anyone who buys Construct 2 get their first year of Construct 3 for free so that the buyer wont hesitate if they are wondering about Construct 3.

This is not at all a slight at our current customer base, we consider a lot of Construct 2 purchases now as basically pre-orders for Construct 3.


So its free for the first year for me? Will I get the 50% off thing for C3 going for as long as I have the personal licence for C2 or is it only for the first or second year? I was going to pay the $50-100 a year anyways but this is already really nice. Also can you link me to something that shows the improvements from C3 over C2? The teaser website doesn't really show much.

Jut one last question, will you abandon C2 to work on C3 alone, or will you continue updates on both?
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Post » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:46 pm

Zebbi wrote:
tunepunk wrote:The mindset of some people here seems to be that they want everything for free, or they don't really understand the value and cost of maintaining a product, and providing support, updates, new features, bug fixes.

I absolutely don't believe that's true at all, I believe my exact words the week or two before the announcement was "I'm ready to pay for C3 if it comes out on Wednesday". I can't believe they charged so little for the "lifetime" updates to C2, but the majority of people here just want to voice their dissatisfaction with a lock-out subscription, especially for what looks like mostly potential C2 tweaks that have been hoarded for Construct Cloud, and a bunch of bleeding-edge features that no-one really wants.

I'm getting tried of posts implying most users here want a free lunch. I love open-source, but I'd never expect to get the same experience as I would with proprietary software that costs, but fundamentally there's a problem with subscriptions charges for users, and I think that's something most developers haven't anticipated yet.


I mentioned this in other threads as well. How is subscription a problem? If you decide not to pay it's not scirra locking you out.... (maybe if they ban you and forbid you to ever subscribe again) You're locking your self out...

C3 is an online service...

Have you ever played world of warcraft? Try subscribe for a while, then stop paying, and start complaining you're locked out of the game, all your character progress is locked, You can't access the game and play with friends anymore.... If anything, people will laugh at you for posting something as silly as that. WoW is an online service with maintenance costs.

C3 is also an online service with maintenance, server costs etc. You might not like the route they took by making c3 as a webapp, but any other payment model than subscription is gonna be tricky to juggle for something that has monthly upkeep costs, unless you figure out another clever way to monetize, maybe IAP (selling extra features) using ads or intentionally plan to stop supporting c3 once c4 comes out next year. You can pretty easily calculate when a costumer cost you more than they payed. If you bought C2 5 years ago and still using it, chances are you're probably costing scirra money by now.

Get over it,... it's business 101, income vs expenses.

The only surprising thing is that there seem to be so many that doesn't get that. And no one is locking you out if you stop subscribing, you're locking yourself out.

I just locked myself out from monthly adobe CC, and Autodesk Maya LT subscription, because I don't use it that much lately, but if I ever need to use it again soon I'll gladly pay up again.
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Post » Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:20 am

tunepunk wrote:C3 is an online service...

Yes. Just like people didn't expect. Or ask for.

tunepunk wrote:Have you ever played world of warcraft? Try subscribe for a while, then stop paying, and start complaining you're locked out of the game, all your character progress is locked, You can't access the game and play with friends anymore.... If anything, people will laugh at you for posting something as silly as that. WoW is an online service with maintenance costs.

I don't play it. Never have never will. In any case, it's a mmorpg game not a software tool. Pretty big difference I think.

C3 is also an online service with maintenance, server costs etc. You might not like the route they took by making c3 as a webapp, but any other payment model than subscription is gonna be tricky to juggle for something that has monthly upkeep costs, unless you figure out another clever way to monetize, maybe IAP (selling extra features) using ads or intentionally plan to stop supporting c3 once c4 comes out next year.

Yeah. Maybe they should reconsider that feature seeing as its reception so far has been pretty lukewarm.

You can pretty easily calculate when a costumer cost you more than they payed. If you bought C2 5 years ago and still using it, chances are you're probably costing scirra money by now.

I agree their updates for C2 have been extremely generous.

Get over it,... it's business 101, income vs expenses.

Yep. Two-way street, that business thing.

The only surprising thing is that there seem to be so many that doesn't get that. And no one is locking you out if you stop subscribing, you're locking yourself out.

Yes, that's why some will be reluctant to lock themselves in in the first place.

People complain because they like C2 but don't like this direction. And because they waited a long time and expected something different. But that's fair. Scirra are not obligated to change course, and users are not obligated to sign up for C3.

In any case I'm grateful for all I've gotten out of C2 so I hope things work out for them, even if I'm probably not signing up for a sub myself.
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Post » Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:45 pm

MorrisFeldman wrote:
Tom wrote:I've explained this in another thread, but am happy to talk about it again.

From when we announce Construct 3 to when we release Construct 3 is a period of many months. During this period, a risk we identified in advance would be that everyone stops buying Construct 2 to wait for Construct 3. If this happened, we would be haemorrhaging money which would put a lot of financial stress on the business.

It's a risk we obviously wanted to avoid, so we decided to let anyone who buys Construct 2 get their first year of Construct 3 for free so that the buyer wont hesitate if they are wondering about Construct 3.

This is not at all a slight at our current customer base, we consider a lot of Construct 2 purchases now as basically pre-orders for Construct 3.


So its free for the first year for me? Will I get the 50% off thing for C3 going for as long as I have the personal licence for C2 or is it only for the first or second year? I was going to pay the $50-100 a year anyways but this is already really nice. Also can you link me to something that shows the improvements from C3 over C2? The teaser website doesn't really show much.

Jut one last question, will you abandon C2 to work on C3 alone, or will you continue updates on both?


- If you bought C2 on or after the date we announced C3 in the first blog post, you get 100% discount on your first year. This will be exercised when you decide to first start your subscription.
- Check all our blog posts for details on C3 that have been announced
- No, we will continue to provide updates to C2 as we have been doing for the last year or so.
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Post » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:31 am

When I bought Construct 2 I was happy with the Personal licence and all the updates which where for free. I found it indeed very generous all those free updates.

There are many models in the Scirra C3 subscription and surely you will find the right one for you. Only the sun comes up freely.

I really do not understand why people still make such problems about the subscription model. Take it the other way around, if you sell a game you worked on for more than a year. Would you like Scirra also give the next updates for free? Are you also working for free?
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Post » Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:39 pm

Bad Wolf wrote:There are many models in the Scirra C3 subscription and surely you will find the right one for you.

False.
Bad Wolf wrote:Only the sun comes up freely.

A few other things other than solar light, but yes, I see your point.
Bad Wolf wrote:When I bought Construct 2 I was happy with the Personal licence and all the updates which where for free. I found it indeed very generous all those free updates.

Correct.
Bad Wolf wrote:I really do not understand why people still make such problems about the subscription model. Take it the other way around, if you sell a game you worked on for more than a year.

I don't sell. A thing.
Bad Wolf wrote:Would you like Scirra also give the next updates for free?

Looks like you were happy they did though?
Bad Wolf wrote:Are you also working for free?

In the year 2017, if you're in any entertainment industry, and you're not a big player, it is inevitable you will be "working" for free. So, yes. Yes, again. Many more times, yes.
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Post » Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:08 pm

Dear Zebbi,

Thank you for your comments and remarks which I appreciate very much.

I regret very much that you and many others, have to create games for free. I created games for our 8 year daughter. Construct is for me an excellent tool.

As for you and the other small game developers, in my opinion, you all deserve so much more better than instead of have to do it all for free.

Its one of the reasons, I pay for any software, asset, resource I use, just out of principle.
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Post » Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:53 am

Bad Wolf wrote:As for you and the other small game developers, in my opinion, you all deserve so much more better than instead of have to do it all for free.

I think if you'd seen my sole "release", quite the contrary, you'd probably agree I get what I deserve! :lol: https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... bbi.srduke
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Post » Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:30 am

Zebbi wrote:
Bad Wolf wrote:Are you also working for free?

In the year 2017, if you're in any entertainment industry, and you're not a big player, it is inevitable you will be "working" for free. So, yes. Yes, again. Many more times, yes.

Yep- I can attest to this. Independent developers often put countless hours into their work without being paid or ever receiving a fair return.

I feel competent enough to invest my money into a tool I know I can utilize well and that I know can provide me with results, but I understand that for others who are new to Construct the subscription will scare them away. For them, they may not even spend the full year using it because focus shifts from thing to thing when you are starting out and learning- you often run into walls that hold you back or discourage progress, etc. I know I probably wouldn't have used Construct2 if they were using a subscription model when I first looked at it- I would have turned to something else that is more forgiving of my time.
So lets say a new user pays up and uses the program, but it takes them a whole year and they still haven't become completely competent with it- due to the subscription model, that might make them question whether they want to pay for another year of potentially the same outcome.
Sure Construct is a tool that looks like it makes developing games an easy thing, and yes it does make it simpler a process, but developing games involves a lot and it takes a lot of time to master. Developing games requires more than just programming/scripting, etc.
It's going to be really interesting to see how the community changes after C3 is released.
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Post » Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:26 am

Prominent wrote:
Zebbi wrote:
Bad Wolf wrote:Are you also working for free?

In the year 2017, if you're in any entertainment industry, and you're not a big player, it is inevitable you will be "working" for free. So, yes. Yes, again. Many more times, yes.

Yep- I can attest to this. Independent developers often put countless hours into their work without being paid or ever receiving a fair return.

I feel competent enough to invest my money into a tool I know I can utilize well and that I know can provide me with results, but I understand that for others who are new to Construct the subscription will scare them away. For them, they may not even spend the full year using it because focus shifts from thing to thing when you are starting out and learning- you often run into walls that hold you back or discourage progress, etc. I know I probably wouldn't have used Construct2 if they were using a subscription model when I first looked at it- I would have turned to something else that is more forgiving of my time.
So lets say a new user pays up and uses the program, but it takes them a whole year and they still haven't become completely competent with it- due to the subscription model, that might make them question whether they want to pay for another year of potentially the same outcome.
Sure Construct is a tool that looks like it makes developing games an easy thing, and yes it does make it simpler a process, but developing games involves a lot and it takes a lot of time to master. Developing games requires more than just programming/scripting, etc.
It's going to be really interesting to see how the community changes after C3 is released.

The real question is, can Construct survive without third party plugin developers?
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