Stencyl released!

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Post » Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:38 pm

[QUOTE=tulamide]So, there's only a minority that makes use of hardware-accelerated HTML5 canvas. 28% can't play at all, and for the rest it is terribly slow (<10fps).[/QUOTE]
Where are you getting your figures for "a minority" from? Over 50% of the web is Firefox or Chrome which both support WebGL with fallback to hardware-accelerated 2D canvases. Of IE, 10% is now IE9 with hardware-accelerated 2D canvas. Obviously IE8 and earlier aren't supported, but the browsers which don't have hardware-accelerated HTML5 gaming are now in the minority!
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Post » Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:19 am

[QUOTE=Ashley]Where are you getting your figures for "a minority" from?[/QUOTE] From the sources I provided. If you follow the links, you can see them for yourself :)
[QUOTE=Ashley]Over 50% of the web is Firefox or Chrome which both support WebGL with fallback to hardware-accelerated 2D canvases.[/QUOTE] That are two points, that are not quite correct. Firefox and Chrome make 41%, while Explorer makes 52%. And you forgot again to see the fact, that 47% of the computers still use WinXP (Vista and 7 combined make less, 45%, Win 7 alone only 37%), so no hardware support for those, if they are using Firefox or IE. Chrome just makes 19% overall, and we know that those 19% are NOT only using WinXP, but Win 7, too. Let's say, it's half of them (I doubt it). That would still be around 39% of users who don't have hardware acceleration support.
source

[QUOTE=Ashley]Of IE, 10% is now IE9 with hardware-accelerated 2D canvas. Obviously IE8 and earlier aren't supported, but the browsers which don't have hardware-accelerated HTML5 gaming are now in the minority![/QUOTE] See above. While it's true that Firefox and IE do support hardware acceleration, it isn't available for those, who still use WinXP, which is at least 39% of all web users. That's what I meant with "underestimated".

There's nothing, one could do about it. As time goes by, the huge base of 47% WinXP as operating system will shrink. But I'm absolutely sure, that's one reason for HTML5 not becoming as fast the successor to Flash as was hoped.
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Post » Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:13 am

your forgetting about Smart Phones though Tulmanide.
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Post » Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:32 am

I think its a mistake to trust one website with statistics and base a debate off it.

"It is worth noting a few possible anomalies with these statistics. For example, overestimation may occur with page refreshes, loading resources like css or JavaScript files, and feed readers may be counted."(http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/programming-and-development/should-web-developers-keep-up-with-browser-statistics/719)

Here are some other sources:

http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php

http://gs.statcounter.com/



[QUOTE=tulamide] As long as those numbers don't change significantly, I wouldn't hesitate to predict, who's winning. If HTML5 isn't hardware-accelerated on the majority of browser/operating system combinations, it is too slow compared to Flash, to have any success for now. [/QUOTE]

At this point in time - flash games are undoubtable more accessible than html5 games (i dont think anyone is debating this). So why do we make html5 games? Because it is the way of the future (i dont think anyone debates this either do they?) - were embracing new tech!

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

(Now this shows a trend!) - And if it continues growing like this, it wont be long at all.
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Post » Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:09 am

I'm not debating on principles, I'm just giving a hint to those who wonder, why Flash isn't dying as fast as they thought.
You can either accept the facts, or ignore them. I didn't say anything against the future of HTML5, I rather said, that it will have success. I'm talking about the current situation as a hint to why Flash is in the lead right now.
And why do you accuse me for showing sources? I even didn't use the higher ones (some see over 55% of XP). But at least I showed them. For example, Ashley stated that over 50% of the browsers are Firefox and Chrome, but he did not provide any source.

The W3Schools' stats aren't saying much. They were collected only from the users of that site:
"W3Schools is a website for people with an interest for web technologies. These people are more interested in using alternative browsers than the average user. The average user tends to the browser that comes preinstalled with their computer, and do not seek out other browser alternatives.

These facts indicate that the browser figures above are not 100% realistic. Other web sites have statistics showing that Internet Explorer is a more popular browser.

Anyway, our data, collected from W3Schools' log-files, over many years, clearly shows the long and medium-term trends."


The W3counter link is a better one, having a lot of different sites in surveillance. And it shows the same, what I pointed to: A high user base with WinXP.

Statcounter again shows that large WinXP user base. It is a difference, if you use IE with Win7 (IE9+) or WinXP (IE8-). And it is a difference, if one uses Firefox with Win7 (hardware-acceleration support) or with WinXP (no support).

So, thanks for those links, they confirm that there is still a large user base that has no hardware-acceleration support and therefore will prefer Flash.

Again: it is the current situation. It has nothing to do with the future or the quality of HTML5 or C2 or Ashley's hard work to establish a really good game maker for that market! It is just the answer to those who wonder, why Flash is still so popular. As I said in a previous post: It will slowly change over time. It is not a matter of "if", but "when".
tulamide2012-01-11 09:12:54
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Post » Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:25 am

@tulamide, hardware acceleration works on XP as far as I know. So everyone should be able to use hardware acceleration, XP isn't holding that back.

I forgot to say, I got my stats off http://gs.statcounter.com/ which shows IE at about 38% right now. Different sources have different stats so I guess it's hard to know for certain. But according to StatCounter 11% is IE9 which has hardware acceleration, which leaves only 27% non-HTML5 browsers. Other sites might show slightly different numbers but I think it's clear HTML5 should be fast for the majority of users already.Ashley2012-01-11 10:28:04
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Post » Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:53 am

Im sorry tulamide i wasnt trying to attack you in my post, its just that i followed your sources through and they were all sourced from one website - then i read about the difficulties they have in accuracy when sampling.

Honestly i just thought it was a little misleading to say "these are the facts". But anyway - this is waaaay off topic now :). Once again, no offence intended.

    GenkiGenga2012-01-11 10:54:09
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Post » Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:39 pm

Flash right now is more powerfull then html5. But the focus is on HTML5 tech (plugin-less in general). The big boss companies are betting everything on it, brilliant devs are makes brilliant things on it, there's tons of engines and frameworks for it etc etc. And there's NaCL that gives much more power (being able to use C++ or C# instead of JS). Unity will export NaCL or already does don't know exactly.
Flash will either die or embrace the change. I'm pretty sure it'll be the second option, already is infact. Maybe HTML5 won't be the ultimate solution for all things (probably won't) but it's the starting point of a big change. It's not always easy to embrace so much change but it's that or die. Not replying to anyone just expressing my opinion.Kiyoshi2012-01-13 17:44:27
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Post » Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:11 pm

@Kiyoshi

Adobe have already announced they are dumping Flash in favour of HTML5 for mobile devices. Not sure what plans are for continuing for PC or MAC. With severe stability issues surrounding Flash lately... Adobe will need to do do something before HTML5 not only catches up, but far surpasses Flash.

On my PC, HTML5 already performs way better than flash. Flash seems to win still on older hardware platforms though.

~Sol
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Post » Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:03 pm

I tried stencyl a while back, but I couldn't make sense of the gui. with construct 2 it just clicked. It's a pity C2 only runs on the pc since I'm a mac user. bought it anyway, though. hehe andreas2012-01-14 20:04:43
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