Switching from GM - big projects in construct?

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Post » Sun Dec 21, 2008 6:11 pm

Because Construct is OPEN SOURCE, the"coders" will like it too. They can make modifications to make more and more for a special game or application they want.
So Construct is good for artist, level designer, Construct is good for teacher who want amethod to learn logic to students and Construct is good for coders too for the reasons i explain before... and another point...
MERRY XMAS ASHLEY ! an Merry xmas to all of you !
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Post » Sun Dec 21, 2008 6:22 pm

[quote="TDKnite":2xkzkchi]Well, I'd just like to say, though I'm really only just getting in to Construct, that I think the program is great so far for someone like me....[/quote:2xkzkchi]

Hey KniteBlargh :)

Good to see you here. Soon we TIGSource members will take over :twisted:
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Post » Sun Dec 21, 2008 6:27 pm

Kwarn: Good point. See, that's how totally NOT brainy I am; I didn't even think of the fact that it's open source. LOL

Deadeye: Thanks for the welcome. :wink:
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Post » Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:19 pm

Actually kwarn reminded me of another point; using the plugin SDK you can design behaviors and plugins in C++, so you can do more advanced logic and code via C++ code and custom-built plugins for your game. For me being a C++ coder, I know if I come across something Construct can't do easily, I can design a plugin to solve that problem in C++, as well.
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Post » Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:52 pm

[quote="Ashley":30oenvrd]Well, why not write your games in C++? (...)
So if you know C++ even with more years experience than me what are you going round using IDEs for? :P[/quote:30oenvrd]
Because it takes a lot time, and i dont have much of that resource. Not to mention i have absolutely no experience with DirectX, and very little with Opengl. But i think theres a misunderstanding here, so let me explain.

If it wasnt for Game Maker, i would focus on using one of game/graphics framework libraries, like SFML, HGE or even Ogre. So why am i using GM, if its so slow and doesnt have advanced graphical features like shaders? Because GM is even higher level than those libraries. Which means it does even more work done for you. Ive been experimenting with various libraries for years now, so when i recently got around trying GM, i was amazed how fast it is to develop in. And not only that, but its also an IDE (albeit rather simple one) - it lets me easily manage objects (and their events), resources and rooms. But even if it was without the IDE, just a C++ library, i would still use it, because of how high level it is.

Now, Construct looks alot like GM in that it is a game engine/library with an IDE. Its big advantages over GM are speed and more advanced graphics engine. However, the downside is that it doesnt let me to access its 'library' functions through scripting, like Game Maker does through GML. Instead, it 'forces' me to use this event system akin to GMs action drag and drop system, which i always abhorred. This is why am i so... well, disappointed, i guess, although thats a bit too strong of a word.

[quote="Ashley":30oenvrd]Actually kwarn reminded me of another point; using the plugin SDK you can design behaviors and plugins in C++, so you can do more advanced logic and code via C++ code and custom-built plugins for your game. For me being a C++ coder, I know if I come across something Construct can't do easily, I can design a plugin to solve that problem in C++, as well.[/quote:30oenvrd]
Hm, thats interesting, ill have to look into that. For a quick question, does the SDK allow access to Construct functions (actions, basically), properties and event/condition triggering? Would it let me to basically write event sheets through C++?



[quote="kwarn":30oenvrd]Kaelis, Construct is a good software and the team's work hard to finish the 1.0. And it is a good team too. ;)
You have the time before the 1.0, like Ashley said, to try all the tutorials to understand that it is the best way to make pc game in few times.[/quote:30oenvrd]
Oh, im not saying Construct is a bad piece of software. Actually, on the opposite - as far as i can tell, its very good, if only because one of the few fully-featured user friendly game development tools. Im just saying the workflow it uses (event system) is simply awkward for me to work with, especially if i were to do something bigger than just a simple platformer or top-down shooter.

Also, i did in fact look at the downloadable examples, tutorials and templates.



[quote="kwarn":30oenvrd]Because Construct is OPEN SOURCE, the"coders" will like it too. They can make modifications to make more and more for a special game or application they want.[/quote:30oenvrd]
Ah, yes. I have looked into Construct source, and must say its far over my head. For example, the IDE is (obviously) full of windows programming, about which i know very little, so i would basically need to learn it from scratch to be able to at least understand the source. Yes, ive been coding for 8 years, but this was mainly a matter of hobby for me, i never wrote anything as huge and/or advanced as Construct.
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Post » Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:40 am

[quote:xtltchs8]Because it takes a lot time, and i dont have much of that resource. Not to mention i have absolutely no experience with DirectX, and very little with Opengl[/quote:xtltchs8]
OK, well, you could probably learn these in a reasonable amount of time, and it's cool because you're dealing with the nuts and bolts of the GPU.

[quote:xtltchs8]So why am i using GM, if its so slow and doesnt have advanced graphical features like shaders? Because GM is even higher level than those libraries.[/quote:xtltchs8]
Well, I would describe the event system as even higher-level than using languages. Hence as you say, faster, quicker, easier, not having to do the messy work yourself.

[quote:xtltchs8]Instead, it 'forces' me to use this event system akin to GMs action drag and drop system, which i always abhorred. This is why am i so... well, disappointed, i guess, although thats a bit too strong of a word.[/quote:xtltchs8]
I've heard bad things about the Game Maker event system. I don't think it really has much in common with Construct's event system. I hope you don't assume the Construct event system is as sucky as Game Maker, because the Construct event system is a lot more sophisticated than in any other product. You really can make fairly complex games in it with just events, once you're familiar with the paradigm.

[quote:xtltchs8]does the SDK allow access to Construct functions (actions, basically), properties and event/condition triggering?[/quote:xtltchs8]
Basically you have full access to the engine, because every single plugin and behavior is implemented through the SDK (nothing is built in, except things like the rendering engine, events engine etc). You can trigger events, and modify the common properties of all objects (the RunObjectHeaderInfo struct in rundefs.h, which includes x, y, width, height, angle, etc). If you're thinking about implementing the entire game by a custom written plugin, you'll probably have a hard time. However, you could do a lot of it I guess, but you'd be reinventing things easily possible by events.

Have a shot at the Ghost Shooter tutorial, and see what you think of the events system then. Please, don't think of it in the same terms as you do Game Maker :P
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Post » Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:13 am

[quote="Ashley":30sd0u3e]OK, well, you could probably learn these in a reasonable amount of time, and it's cool because you're dealing with the nuts and bolts of the GPU.[/quote:30sd0u3e]
But the whole point is - i dont want to! :)

[quote="Ashley":30sd0u3e]Well, I would describe the event system as even higher-level than using languages. Hence as you say, faster, quicker, easier, not having to do the messy work yourself.[/quote:30sd0u3e]
Yes, but i meant the library functions, not the user interface. GMs drag and drop or Construct event system is just a replacement for typing down commands/functions/etc.

[quote="Ashley":30sd0u3e]I've heard bad things about the Game Maker event system. I don't think it really has much in common with Construct's event system. I hope you don't assume the Construct event system is as sucky as Game Maker, because the Construct event system is a lot more sophisticated than in any other product. You really can make fairly complex games in it with just events, once you're familiar with the paradigm.[/quote:30sd0u3e]
Of course, but its really not about the level of sophistication (i am sure i could port big parts of my projects to construct), its about the idea of dragging/picking from dialogs vs typing it out.

[quote="Ashley":30sd0u3e]You can trigger events, and modify the common properties of all objects (the RunObjectHeaderInfo struct in rundefs.h, which includes x, y, width, height, angle, etc).[/quote:30sd0u3e]
Ah, so you cant modify the properties/variables you add to objects inside IDE, that pretty much rules the idea out. And the fact that it would be really awkward and time consuming to debug games made like that.

[quote="Ashley":30sd0u3e]If you're thinking about implementing the entire game by a custom written plugin, you'll probably have a hard time.[/quote:30sd0u3e]
Oh no, i was just thinking about doing events (or rather, actions that happen when a certain event is triggered) through plugins.

[quote="Ashley":30sd0u3e]Have a shot at the Ghost Shooter tutorial, and see what you think of the events system then. Please, don't think of it in the same terms as you do Game Maker :P[/quote:30sd0u3e]
As i said, i already did that. And no, i dont think Construct event system is as nearl as bad as D&D actions from Game Maker. It all really boils down to me wanting to script my events instead of putting them together from predefined blocks.
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Post » Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:48 am

Well, when Python comes back online there's nothing saying you can't script your game with that. Yes, you'd still have to use the event editor to insert your code snippets, but as far as I know there's nothing hindering the length of those snippets so, theoretically, you could create your entire game using just one big Python script.

Unless I'm missing something fundamental here... I admit I don't have much experience with using Python in Construct. Or at all, really.
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Post » Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:51 am

I'm with Kaelis. I'm not a programmer though that can code pong in C++, not much experience but I have concept about those stuff(pointers, functions, objects, etc..)

Construct I think is right in making it newbie-friendly for those not too literate in programming but I think that it should also be flexible to be able to be used by advanced people who like to make huge projects as well. Just like GM, it's easy to make a pong game there but there are also games made by advanced users that are 3d, online, full rgps, and the likes.
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Post » Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:43 pm

Well, Kaelis, maybe Construct just isn't for you. Maybe one day in future there'll be a full scripting engine, but I don't think it's going to go much further than an extension to the event sheet editor for some time. I don't really want to spend time making a scripting tool, as I've said before - it's been done to death and I think if you want to program a game, you'll get a lot more out of something like C++ with a good game library anyway.

Thanks for the feedback, but I think we're looking for different things here :)
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