Taking a break from Construct ...

Discussion and feedback on Construct 2

Post » Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:18 am

Thank you for the answers :) So it seems blueprints win over Playmaker.
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Post » Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:45 am

I've been having similar reservations about c2... The only thing stopping me from jumping to UE4 was the lack of integrated bones animation for 2d. But yesterday I found a programme called Creature which is amazing that I must check out. Way better than Spriter....

I read on Unreal forums that Unity is much faster at animated sprite rendering than UE4 with Blueprints, so UE4 is not perfect... but the limits are way out there. Stuttering simple 2d platform performance in Umbra is depressing, with reasonable performance limited to high end machines, so I feel your pain and have been looking at other options for a while as well. I think I'll finish my current game experiment then I'm done here too. I'll be back to check out c3, so I reserve judgement there. Good luck!
A big fan of JavaScript.
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Post » Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:56 am

Silverforce wrote:I didn't know Blueprint has such a high overhead, 10x slower than pure C+ is worse than javascript/html5 with a good JIT engine?


Yeah. Blueprints are running through Virtual Machine - every single node basically. So the ideal solution is to make all complex nodes into one node (you get 1 call instead of 20 for example). But good news are they are already researching a method to bypass and remove the VM completely, we just need to wait... like we always do with every engine ;)

There was a nice Twitch stream called "Blueprint Optimization" if I remember correctly, where they spoke about how it works, what to do, what to avoid etc.
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Post » Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:16 pm

I would treat blue prints similar to how I would treat the EventSheet in C2. Use the BP as the model of interacting with different objects, not to use BP as new features. If the program needs some heavy duty processing get a Plugin or write the feature in C++. Try to keep BP as logic triggers and not heavy data processing.

I'm sharing the same sentiment as others. I love C2, but for me the workflow tools are falling behind standards. And often I can't "sell" C2 as a viable project tool because of solitary design concept that runs C2(I know C2 works with CVS, but no where near the level Unity, Unreal, Havok...) and exports.

I still prototype in C2 and make games in C2, but anything more complex than the basics is done elsewhere. And I agree with Shinkan here. Unreal has a heavier IDE to learn, but once you do it is the most similar to C2(abstractly). Except you get a SceneGraph hierarchy of objects and that makes a world of difference.
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Post » Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:33 pm

Interesting discussion.
Wouldn't it be amazing if one could have a 3D Construct? I like Constructs's events system and being able to use that power in 3D.
I know it wont happen but it will be something brand new. never been done as far as i am aware.

3D games...well i come from making Flash Educational games then moved over to some 3D visualization games in Garagegames Torque 3D but we had a small team. So i was mainly level / Environment designer and others coded.
My main job now is Drupal and Sharepoint work so non interactive gaming but always thought to get back into 3D.

Thing is it's tough as well. 3D is not as easy as 2D to make WELL. If you don't make 3D well it looks amateur. An amateur 2D game can have some style or some sort of feel to it that cannot be captured in 3D.
However, with VR and AR i see a big boost in the gaming arena with 3D games and VR tech. Nielsen marketing i think it was, said that it will be a $ 150 billion industry by 2020.

I will download Unreal Engine 4 and try this Blueprints you guys talk of. last I checked anything about Unreal Engines was with UDK.

In my opinion though, if you want to make 2D games fast for desktop and web, Construct 2 is where it's at currently.
Stencyl is cool with performance vs C2 but not there in terms of efficiency and power I think.
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Post » Fri Oct 09, 2015 7:10 pm

Just to add to my previous posts.

Found out a card on UE4 trello called "Blueprint -> C++ conversion tool" - Optimize runtime performance for packaged games, by providing users an optional cook step for converting Blueprint assets into C++ classes.
This is spread over September, October and November. So probably this year Blueprints will get a lot faster :)
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Post » Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:30 am

You really don't need to worry about Blueprint performance, its impact on overall performance is minimal. You'd have to do something pretty extreme for Blueprint performance even to be a factor.

Optimizing this by converting to C++ will be cool, but hardly necessary.

You cannot compare this to the speed of JavaScript in C2 either, since in C2 the entire engine is written in JavaScript so it has a much bigger impact.

The main reason to use C++ with Blueprints is better flexibility. You can make complete games in Blueprint, but it will always be limited compared to what you can do with C++.

There is no point discussing which is better though, ideally you know what you need for your game and then pick the right tool for the job. Unreal Engine is much heavier and that makes it less suitable for certain game projects. I would pick Construct over Unreal for 2D prototyping and for 2D games which should be as accessible as possible (e.g. web based and light weight).

HTML5 games have a very interesting future and while Unreal and Unity can convert to it, Construct uses it natively. That does make it a lot easier for example to integrate with other web based frameworks.

I also appreciate that Construct loads up super fast on any laptop, which makes it ideal for prototyping or working on smaller games on the go.

There is no one tool to rule them all, and I don't think there will ever be. The important thing is to be aware of the strengths and weaknesses and take the most possible advantage of it. That's why I find it pointless to ask for 3D or native exports in Construct, just like it would be pointless to ask for Unreal to be significantly simpler.
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Post » Sat Oct 10, 2015 7:36 am

Well said @Zenity

As far as I see it, 2D game, C2 is un-rivaled.

3D is a toss up, UE4 is more professional and considered as such while Unity has a reputation for being more indie friendly, as in, when you become really skilled with C+, UE4 will allow you to achieve much better visuals easier.

Here's a nice thread on Reddit's Gamedev sub about Unity vs UE4 pros and cons.

https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/commen ... _with_ue4/
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Post » Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:31 am

I guess that win-win situation would be if C2 or C3 would be converted into an Unity's plugin for gamemeking. :)
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Post » Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:46 pm

Silverforce wrote:3D is a toss up, UE4 is more professional and considered as such while Unity has a reputation for being more indie friendly, as in, when you become really skilled with C+, UE4 will allow you to achieve much better visuals easier.


My take on that (although my Unity experience is limited) is that UE4 has a lot of features which make life easier (Blueprints being one of them, but also the fantastic integrated networking support, and a lot more), but due to its sheer size and complexity it is much harder to get a grip on everything that you need to know as a solo developer or small team. So Unity is a bit more tailored towards those, while UE4 has its strengths with somewhat larger teams with specialised developers.

If your goal is to make a complete game by yourself, then Unity will probably get you there faster (not as fast as Construct 2). If your goal is to become a competent game developer with a specific focus, UE4 is probably the most promising tool to learn right now.

I wouldn't focus much on what kind of visuals the engines can achieve though. Indies cannot compete on graphical prowess alone, so being able to implement your vision efficiently and quickly is far more important. This is a bonus for UE4 mainly because it makes the engine feasible for AAA games, which means that your skills will be highly relevant if you seek employment in this sector.
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