i wish Scirra's forums were better :(. I only reply to not correct but to enlighten about C2 and other revelations. So these are not corrections :)
[QUOTE=BluePhaze] Construct creates HTML 5 games, the wrappers and exporters export HTML 5, not true native apps. If you want to create native apps for a platform then most likely you will need to use the SDK or buy the Development tools that are built for that platform. Get an objective C development tool for iOS (and learn objective C). Get Visual Studio for Windows 8 and Windows Phone (And learn C#), etc....
reply: Good point, however C2 project objects are platform and export agnostic. Early design of C2 had in mind to export to different native platforms. Inherently C2 still is built around this at it's core. It's just the focus has changed and become more focused and limited in scope.
For now it's either
A. Go native coding for the platform
B. Accept the current state(which i'm doing, with a little grumble)
C. Go to the competition who in fact is supporting full native cross platform.
Choose the right tool for you and budget. Maybe C2 isn't that tool. :( thought I love how it works :)
reply: The sad part is the SNES can do better than C2 + CocoonJS :( Also the important part of the entire discussion isn't logic performance which is running at acceptable levels. it's the fact that performance is running closer to software rendering rather than GPU accelerated draw routines. What's worse is that CSS3 transforms(which are full GPU) have better performance than C2 due to it's use of Canvas2D.
There isn't a request for the impossible. Just a request for the old model of direction Scirra was going to take in creating the Exporter Development Kit to allow others.
I'm a firm believer that Scirra should do a kickstarter aimed at 50k to hire a developer to create native exporters.
Part of game design is looking at your target platform, evaluating your game design, and using the right tools to create what you want. There truly is no one size fits all solution.
reply: Very true, which brings Kondisus original point
Scirra makes it very clear that there product is more worth it in the long run. However, it's reliance to wait on others is the biggest weakness. While YoYo Games seems to move at a snails pace they are taking responsibility to do it all. Not only that there extension system does allow developers to work in other languages for target platforms. As HTML5 has no access to native calls unless given a wrapper option.
I also want to point out that the immanent performance of Android, WebGL, IOS and all of that. Has been going since 2010. It's been 3 years waiting for WebGL to hit Android and IOS. In the mean time Apple and Google show no signs of implementing it at the embeded browser level.
If you are going to use any tool to create HTML 5 games, then you will have to get used to the limitations. Third party wrappers are not easy to create, that is why there are dedicated companies just for making them. That is what they are good at. They aren't making game design tools, they are making wrappers. Ashely and Co. aren't making wrappers, they are making game design tools. Since the wrapper developers are benefited most by having their wrappers and exporters used in as many scenarios and in across as many sets of tools as possible, they work to make their wrappers work with the various tools out there. But it takes them time, even though they know their wrappers and tools better than anyone.
reply: very true. so this is related to a prior responce
this is why I think just a pure game wrapper(gfx, audio, control, storage) that Scirra could do, but allow the community to handle the rest as needed. I plan to tinker with the opengl es wrapper once my current game is done.
Why not spend time whining about why the browser vendors or marketplace vendors don't make native wrappers for HTML 5 apps since they want your html 5 apps on their market place. Or why the browser developers don't make the browsers all support the same accerlation features to allow for performance across all of them without the need for all these third party wrappers...
reply: Well you can call it whining, but after 15 years married it's more important to express concerns in a discussion. Whining is usually terse and Konidius has not been terse what so ever. He has been rather verbose, exploring and discussing the different factors that everyone has brought up :) as you are :)
The discussion is really about Scirra choice to reduce it's options. Understandably it's a staffing issue. But the overly focus that HTML mobile is acceptable, will be acceptable imminently or leaving out crucial details. HTML mobile really can't access vital long term requirements(ie no native IAP by js). Also yes it's about Google and Apple inexplicable reluctance to open the WebGL doors and the same for groups like Ludie not already having done so.
Traditional game development meant creating versions of your game for each platform and working with multiple tools to target each one correctly. That story hasn't fully changed. While tools like Construct 2 make things easier to develop the game itself, unless Ashley and crew want to spend their full time making wrappers for all these platforms and ignore the core function of their tools which is game creation in HTML 5, then the best bet is to look at what wrappers that are out there and use them.
reply: This solution could be done by either creating the EDK or releasing the export_html.dll source code for third party development. I'm sure an agreeable license of use of source could be arranged. But i'm not asking for it specifically because I would prefer to avoid coding these days as much as possible. At most snippets here and there.
The hardest part is JS to other language. It could be done with some difficulty as JS is such a crappy language :( no that's not the real reason. it's due to it's flexibility which takes more effort to create a converter.
Notice that even the teams that are fully dedicated to writing these wrappers and accelerators take months or even years to get them into a state that works well for their platforms of choice, and they have much larger teams that the one working on Construct.
These are just the facts... They may be sad, but that doesn't change them.[/QUOTE] reply: Yep and that's ultimately why it's sad and painful. Phonegap is waiting on Google/Apple, CocoonJS has other priorities and Scirra is just letting everyone else handle mobile.
In the end, your frustration is valid, but the way development in general and game development in specific works is that you use the tools that make your life easier until they've done all they can for you, then you get to work finding a solution for the challenges you face until you either get past those challenges, someone else comes up with a solution for you, or you give up.
yep, you are very right. So for now my current Ouya project is in C2. Minimal graphics I can get away with. If the game pans out a few hundred dollars. I will likely use a different toolset until HTML5 mobile get it's act together. When it does I will be jumping right back with gleeful abondon. but my game is well invested in C2 now so I will just get it working as best I can.... it would be nice if CocoonJS could at least support controllers and not crash on the Ouya :(