The sad truth of Construct 2

Discussion and feedback on Construct 2

Post » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:08 pm

for me construct2 its a very good, start, before i was user of MMF2 during years from 1995 to 2012.
Its IMPOSSIBLE to make a simple text reader in MMF2 who read an external file from a ftp, its no scrollbar at all in swf mode :D... and we are in 2013...
Yesterday; i made a text reader with construct2 with AJAX, and a video player who can also read an external video from ftp...thoses kind of stuffs are impossible with his concurrent.

I was asking to the clikteam what he are going to do, because every time i asked for a solution, it take MONTHS and YEARS to move a little finger...

and now im sure i got the solution to my problems, construct2.
Its fast, without bugs in collisions, and a lot of stuff impossible to do with MMF2, i took a little tie to do my first test, and its working.
so one thing to say, thanks to Ashley and is team for construct2.

here its my test done with construc2 http://mattepainting.be/test/index.html

try to do the same with mmf2 :Dimothep852013-02-09 12:12:44
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Post » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:43 pm

I'm sorry but I agree with @Konidias 100%. I've been saying the same things for the past year.

I've been the first to publish a "game" for iOS made in construct and again the first to support the native Game Center (on PhoneGap). I say this not to boast my achievements, but to prove that I'm speaking from experience.

First of all the argument that optimization fixes the issue is complete bullsh*t, I optimized my game in unimaginable ways, rewriting even part of the engine to use the latest hacks, I got to 40fps, but on iPhone4 it lags a lot and I won't risk my company name releasing a half-assed job. Not only that, but to achieve those abysmal fps I had to strip down the graphics to the bare, resulting in a project that look less nice than what I wanted. And let's be frank, my game is very very simple, I did a quick test with another game maker (that exports native apps) and I was getting 60fps constant with a layer of particles that I added on top of it to test speed.

The other argument I see often made is that you can get good fps with mobile Safari, true that, but nobody gives a crap about web games on iOS, plus they are extremely hard to monetize, it's either the AppStore or time wasted (unless is just an hobby).
Meanwhile the WebView (the one that PhoneGap uses) yield horrible framerates (certainly not the fault of Scirra, it's just not in the interest of Apple to make it work).
So we have to rely on external services (like CocoonJS) that are an expense on their own and are clearly not updated regularly (who follows the development of cocoon knows perfectly this). In the end you have: One level of abstraction in the form of Construct, and another level of abstraction which is CocoonJS. If any of these companies fails or decide to stop updating you are done as they are both (partially) closed source. I am personally waiting for the past 3 weeks for ludei to add the promised Game Center support which I'm not seeing coming.

I write this because I believe that construct 2 is the best game maker ever made and a very very good engine, even comparable to some big boys like Corona as far as game development possibilities: you could write something as big as Diablo II with c2, no doubt about it. And on Chrome you'll alse get amazing fps.

Still and I know I'll get bashed for this, HTML5 gaming is a failure, and that's it, there is no point to be made, no redeeming qualities, it's just that: a failure. Let's be honest about it.
HTML5 is the future of Web Applications, and at that is big, beatifull and perfect, but gaming no, and never will be sorry.

Why? Simply, because any game engine there is can be ported to multiple platform, every game engine, every game maker on the market (except C2) has native exporters to every possible platform, and the few that don't are taking steps to do it.

Any argument can simply be countered with this: let's say you develop a game, you get big, you get on Steam, you want to support steam features (achievements, cloud, workshop) good luck doing that with HTML5, it's certainly possible, but whatever your game will be it would be less time consuming to just port it to another engine, even controller support is still sketchy in HTML5!

I finished my game in 2 weeks with construct, then spent 6 month optimizing and waiting for people to finish their libraries and now I'm still sitting on it and I lost any drive to finish the job, it will be certainly the last game I develop with construct 2 (unless a real miracle happens here) because the time I lost optimizing I could' ve wrote it native and be done with it already.
I'll certainly use it for prototyping, but it's such a shame, such a horrible shame, like having a Ferrari in your garage but you can't drive it because you don't have the right fuel.

I believe that if Scirra decides to finally drops HTML5 and start thinking about a cross platform language (like Haxe or lua) they could dominate the market, as things stands right now I see it as a very unlikely eventuality...
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Post » Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:59 pm

This is not Construct 2 fault, sorry but i just buy C2 for what it's aimed for, HTML5 GAME MAKER.

this how C2 is good at, mobile is just need time, in fact I trust Ashley words, he is right, the HTML5 is improving day by day, just try to compare html5 from dec 2011 and after dec 2012 ? their a huge improvements and that took just one year, i remember how html5 was so buggy and i remembered how tigsource filled with users saying this worst option for web game, and flash shouldn't die etc..

for mobile games, i use gamemaker studio, i hate to be like advertising another tool, but i just want to say, C2 is best for html5 game making tool who is fast forward and with easy physics support & webgl shaders.

yes it would be cool to have native export, but you should all understand this just one man effort, and the only support from you to him is to buy and spread the words about C2, it's possible one day native export will happen, or in fact the html5 might do the trick someday but not yet, hopefully soon.

in fact i believe this blame should goes to browsers and mobile manufactures, the issue might be more political than to be technical i believe..

sorry for my bad english.prinsukun2013-02-09 14:02:24
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Post » Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:25 pm

I will add my 2 pence here.

I am a new (and free) user, with a small background in programming from my teenage years (mostly BASIC and Pascal). I am still to decide if I should go forward with buying Construct.

I see this tool, at least at this time, as a great tool for making prototypes and learning how to make games. But I have to say, html5 somehow scares me away from buying. If, construct would work based on Haxe, I would gladly pay for it, even more than it costs now.

I would love to see perhaps Construct2H, that works on Haxe instead of HTML5, I would gladly pledge to a kickstarter to rise funds so @Tom and @Ashley could hire people to port C2's great interface and usability to Haxe.

Saying that, something might change my mind in the near future. HTML5 can do a great leap (like Java did before) - we will see...

Also, I think that it would be a good idea to post a tutorial for mobile optimization on scirra's website, so less-experienced users could optimize their games for mobiles easier.
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Post » Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:47 pm

The biggest part of game design is making something entertaining with the tools you are provided.

If you can not make HTML5 games now with it, then you need to learn it more, or choose a different platform.

DO NOT sit down and plan out a huge game for your first projects with ANY game engine.

Make a few stupid little games, and see how far you can push them until you break it. Then you will understand the limitations.

If you do not know your limmits, then you will design poorly, every single time. No exceptions.

Dont start out making an advanced game for phones, or any other specialty device. Learn the game engine first making desktop based games.

Once you master desktop games, then try to streamline them.

So many new people to game development think they can just start out as a master with out any training or practice.

It is like signing up for a Karate class, and on the first day insisting that you should be able to defeat a 200th degree black-belt.

Or it is like buying an top quality guitar, and insisting that you should be able to play SLAYER or Van Halen on your first try.

This is like any other art-form, you need to learn it before you can master it, or judge it.
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Post » Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:48 pm

@jojoe
I know exactly what you mean, and I have seen it happen so many times. The bottom line is - your first game will not be a hit that will bring you tons of money. But this is not what this topic is about.

From my point of view, C2 is a great tool, just, at this time, limited by it's dedication to html5. Which, by the time I decide to release my first proper game, might be an amazing gaming engine - who knows?

I am full of awe for Tom and Ashley for bringing us updates so often, and expanding C2 in new and creative ways. I just wish that C2 would expand in the way of native exporters, even if they would cost extra or even would be made by a third party.

Saying that, it made me think that perhaps Scirra could team-up with some 3rd party developers to bring us more functionality. People in Haxe, could backward-engineer their language to export from HTML5 to Haxe - I would pay extra for that.
It is similar with Spriter. Once it will get to 1.0 I will buy it and I would be fine with paying another X dollars to get an amazingly working plugin to work with construct.

In the day of crawdfunding this is all possible. Having a community driven support would be amazing - and I can see myself paying for skilled programmers to expand Construct's functionality. Be it kickstarter, or some bounty system, I would put my wallet where my mouth is.

Community support might be the key to expanding construct. We can let Tom and Ashley to create new game-engine features, while others create native support for devices, plugins that extend the usability in new and exciting ways and making construct compatible with other tools.

I am curious what others think of business model like that?VonBednar2013-02-09 17:52:56
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Post » Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:17 pm

[QUOTE=VonBednar]

I am curious what others think of business model like that?[/QUOTE]

I have "crowed funded" projects like blender for quite a few years. I would definitely be into paying a bit for some great plugins.

Maybe they can work out something with the Steam Workshop, so that people can sell their stuff on steam as DLC for Construct 2.

BTW my other message was to the OP, he seems like he got burned out after some design did not work out for him. Sorry to ramble on about newbie maxims. Too much coffee on my part I think :) sorry about that.
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Post » Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:02 pm

I will remain optimistic about HTML 5 gaming.
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Post » Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:06 pm

Without optimism, creativity, experimentation and patience, there would be no games industry to begin with! Creatively getting around platform limitations has lead to many of the things that are considered best practices or great features today...BluePhaze2013-02-09 19:07:51
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Post » Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:44 pm

I hate to sound like a broken record, but there are so many posts in this thread that also sound like broken records...

Complaining that a tools is the BEST TOOL TO DO X ever, then bashing it because it is designed for platform Y is similar to making this argument:

My coffee maker is the best coffee maker I've ever seen! It's so easy to use and it makes the best coffee I've ever tasted. I just wish it would make carbonated beverages. I love my caffeine to be in soda format, but all my coffee maker will make is coffee which I don't like the taste of...why can't Gevalia change my coffee maker to make soda instead? It would taste better and everyone would buy it!

The bottom line is, C2 is a HTML5 based engine. That's all Scirra is responsible for.

Here's an idea: You want native code, write a native exporter. C2 can be written to do this. You want Scirra to do that for you, but it doesn't fall into their plan. I want an awesome survival game like Unreal World, only with a lot of added features to it...but those features don't fall in line with Sami's vision for his game...however he has added in mod support. I can either praise him for his great game, then bash him for not doing things the way I want, or I could write mods that add in what I want in the game.

Actually, I decided on option 3: Write my own game, but then again I'm crazy like that.

The point I'm trying to make, again, is that C2 is and IDE for HTML5. If you don't like the HTML5 platform, you're on the wrong IDE even if you think it's the best IDE out there. If you don't like what it exports, write an exporter or if you don't know how to do that and have a bunch of money find someone who does and throw cash at them to do it.
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