Tile Map Features

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Post » Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:43 pm

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Post » Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:56 pm

C2 can import tilemaps, you can enable snapping to a grid in the layout view, and the sprite's new 'initial frame' property lets you switch between different tiles. That should get you quite far with tile based games.
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Post » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:39 pm

Well sorry but i must say that putting tiles one by one and and changing it's initial frame again and again is just wrong. I've made a test by replicating a rpg maker style level and it's terrible. Even for simple games. Just my feeling. Other's may be comfortable enough with it.
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Post » Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:31 pm

[QUOTE=Ashley] C2 can import tilemaps, you can enable snapping to a grid in the layout view, and the sprite's new 'initial frame' property lets you switch between different tiles. That should get you quite far with tile based games.[/QUOTE]

I hate to be the one to say it but no, no it won't. Not even close.

Being able to import spritesheets, change animation frames, and place objects with a snap-to grid is one thing. A tile-based level editor (or the aforementioned tilemap features) is completely different.

This is the exact same thing you could do in CC, and if it worked people wouldn't still be asking for tile-based level editor features.

No one in their right mind would make tile-based levels this way. I've tried it for my game for the Fun Chowder competition, using a *tiny* 12x3-tile tileset, and I said screw it and started using Tiled since I can't import levels from my old level editor I made in CC. It's excruciating.

I hate to be rude about it but you guys mentioned adding all of this tile-based level editor stuff a while back and now it seems to be shrugged off. These "Drag 'n Drop" level editors are just not good for anything other than single-screen or puzzle games.

[QUOTE=newt] The ability to generate graphics for you.
Yeah, um might want to try and keep it reasonable.[/QUOTE]
If that was directed towards me then the features I mentioned were implemented in my level editor made in CC with events only, so I don't think they are that unreasonable. They were a bit 'specialized' though. Eh.Tokinsom2011-11-22 19:55:39
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Post » Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:17 pm

Tokinsom nailed it . Drag-n-drop editors are great for a class of games , mainly games that are very art oriented like Aquaria or Braid. That said, a tile editor not only is essential but the types of games that are more adequate to web games right now are most tile based games or games that use tiles in some level. It must be put on top of list. I realize this will involve good changes on runtime and editor and it is hard to make it right but it must be done. With that said i know that dealing with JS is a pain and i won't say "Make it now!" or something but just give it priority. Of course it's a hard task and you just can't put the other easier but important tasks aside and work on it non stop. But mark it as very important :)Kiyoshi2011-11-22 21:27:59
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Post » Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:57 pm

I have to agree with the above two posters. Drag and drop just won't cut it for tile maps. Changing animation frames is a temporary solution at best, and it's not nearly as intuitive as a proper tile map editor.
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Post » Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:38 pm

@Tokinsom, you're right. We do have better tile features planned though, it's just right now my todo list is endless. It's difficult to prioritise things because there are people who argue exactly like you do for other significant features like Families, and these are huge jobs, and we're a small company!

We really do urgently need to write the manual, which is one giant monolith of work. I have families next for coding because they make events so much easier, and that's big too. I can do better tile features after that. But then when do the image editor tools fit in? :-\ Hopefully you see our general situation. When I said "quite far" I meant "an awful lot further than if those features didn't exist".Ashley2011-11-22 22:40:22
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Post » Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:39 pm

I strongly disagree with the three above posters, especially with Kioyoshi's biased argumentation that rests on false facts.

Sure it would be nice to have some full-blown solution for tile editing. But then again, I'd rather see Scirra's limited ressources be aimed at practical features like families or XML parsing (features that would allow users to make their OWN level editor in the end or even use Tiled, the tile-editor that was already quoted a lot of times).

But for now, as it is C2 IS the tile editor. And it does its job.
It's probably even closer to the tile editor of Braid than anything (Braid doesn't rely on squared tiling like a zelda for example).
I used C2 for my levels in Space Jinx, and it worked wonderful.
And it was even before the "Initial frame" property (it came in middle of the development, and helped save some events but all in all, I had worked around it already).
Something missing maybe could be a "Initial animation" to go along with the "Initial frame".

But from there you're pretty much done as far as editing (placing tiles) goes.
Tile-editing is NOT a priority in the sense it can already be achieved. And a tile editor in its own is a FULL software. For now, let Ash work on C2.


Edit: Ashley posted while I was writing this. The posters mentioned are the three above him of course.
In the end, it appears to me we said about the same thing, all priorities are subjective, and he codes alone, so everything takes time to be achieved.Kyatric2011-11-22 22:42:31
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Post » Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:52 pm

I'm not arguing that this needs to be top-priority. Sorry if it seemed that way. I would actually prefer you wait a good while before working on some tile-based features, as C2 is still young and there are indeed more important things (families, containers, plugins, what have you.) Not having these is more troublesome than not having a tile-based editor. Like Kyatric said, it IS currently possible to make tile-based levels, but it's a major pain.

Some of the earlier posts just left me under the impression that the whole idea was dropped and the best we were going to get was the "import sprite strip" feature. It is a very nice feature by the way..just not the most practical for tilesets.

Being able to create your own tile-based editor is nice, but I have no clue how it's even possible in C2. On top of that it's an incredibly large amount of work, and you have to constantly add to it for each one of your games. Objects, backgrounds, tiles, triggers, you name it. This all has to be managed and accounted for with EVENTS. It sucks! Just having a drag 'n drop AND tile-based editor built in would be amazing, and could be used for every kind of game. Almost every game out there uses tiles. They just do. Having a game creation tool without tile support just doesn't make sense.Tokinsom2011-11-23 00:37:02
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Post » Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:22 am

@Kyatric Can i know what part of my post is biased and what are the false facts please ? Ok, you don't agree with it. But calling it biased and false without saying why is a severe and childish insult. I'm not trying to be rude with anyone i was just expressing my opinions.Kiyoshi2011-11-23 00:26:03
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