Tilemap object questions & concerns

Discussion and feedback on Construct 2

Post » Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:21 pm

@Digitalsoapbox This thread is about the future and potential of the new tilemap object & features. C2 is on the brink of having a very powerful level editor that is actually designed around the rest of the program, unlike Tiled, and we're just trying to figure out the best way to get there. There is no need to be so insulting about it or provide examples - further bloating & derailing this thread - as many users, including myself, already utilize Tiled & The TMXImporter and know all the "tricks" such as pasting tiles into a canvas. You are correct; it's not that difficult. Fact is, using C2's own layout editor allows you to do many things Tiled cannot, while at the same time Tiled allows you to do things C2's layout editor cannot. In the end, you can use whichever you prefer, but both need to be good options.MadFactory2013-11-05 19:28:41
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Post » Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:23 pm

Agreed, I was addressing points made that are tangential to the OP. No insults were intended, and a high WPM doesn't make me consider length. Let's move along.digitalsoapbox2013-11-05 20:28:55
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Post » Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:24 pm

[QUOTE=Ashley] 1) I'm not sure how custom collision masks per-tile would fit in to the editor. How workable would it be just to place sprites on top and use them for collisions as well? It seems to be a good middle ground.[/QUOTE]
In a way yes and in a way not really. Using separate sprites will indeed work, but there are a few caveats. If you want to do anything like an ingame level editor (which the Tilemap is perfect for), such "hacks" makes such a thing less likely to work decently, if at all. Another one would be how it affects the workflow, it plays into the next thing I wanted to address.

[QUOTE=Ashley]
@inkBot:
You can't move the tilemap if you have any tool other than the select tool chosen. You can also stamp sets of tiles by selecting a larger area of tiles with the pencil tool.
[/QUOTE]
The Tilemap object takes up the entire layout field, and I have to have it unlocked in order to edit it. Naturally I'm going to have other things on the layout as well, like the player character, pickups, enemies, collision sprites and so on. People have already talked about how objects overlapping can be a hassle (mitigated some by the addition of the Z order bar, but not completely so), now throw a huge object that takes up the entire field on top of that and I think you see the issue.

Also, sometimes you just mess up and accidentally move something because you forgot you had that tool selected or that layer unlocked etc. That's just the reality of software use and I think minimizing the need for the user to switch between layers, lcoked layers and tools will only help in that respect. So a way to lock the Tilemap object without making it uneditable would probably be a good idea. I was thinking that maybe it could serve better as a type of layer than an object. Dunno if that would be doable (and probably not completely easy, if so) but it might be a better solution.
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Post » Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:42 pm

Remember the tilemap support in its current incarnation is very much a first release. We're aware it's missing many features and we plan to keep adding features over the next few updates. This is part of our release early, release often strategy - it's already been useful to read all the feedback about it and see where we want to take things in future.

We don't want to reinvent the wheel, but we also want to make everyday tasks simple and easy in C2. Things like supporting collision masks is not reinventing the wheel, just something we need to add support for. On the other hand we want to try to avoid reinventing the wheel inside of Construct 2 as well - given we have things like Sprites which can be animated and have collision polygons, it's worth taking some time to plan how it's best to approach some of these features. Maybe it's worth adding that functionality again but separately for tilemaps, or maybe it's better to try and get the existing Sprites to do the heavy lifting. I suspect it'll end up being the former, but working out how to add tilemap editing to an existing and well-featured editor is something that should be approached thoughtfully. Hopefully the next few releases will address most of the immediate concerns about tilemap support.
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Post » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:53 am

When I do a tile map I want to add another on top of it to make things like props, and simi-transparent shadows. But when I load a second tile map, I can't go back to editing the first one's tiles!

No matter what, when I open the tile editor window... I'm faced with the 2nd tilemap's tiles.

Is there a way the tile map editor could be "pointing" to the selected object's tiles?

I could just completely finish my first one before starting the second... But I feel I must be missing something
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Post » Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:02 am

I did a little test, and using the tilemap just for collisions seems to reduce collion checks by like 90% compared to using lots of sprites, weird!

Either it's amazingly efficient for collisions or the debug thing needs to be updated?alspal2013-11-07 02:05:39
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Post » Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:28 am

[QUOTE=alspal] I did a little test, and using the tilemap just for collisions seems to reduce collion checks by like 90% compared to using lots of sprites, weird!

Either it's amazingly efficient for collisions or the debug thing needs to be updated?[/QUOTE] If you look at the blog post it kinda reduces it to areas of collision VS individual tile collisions

I assume this might cause you to see it check less.

Blog post also says something about potential new collision detection, but it's not in atm.

@sinistar99
Are you using 2 tilemap objects on 1 layer? If so might be better off moving it to a layer above it, or have a spot where they each do not overlap the other.Thndr2013-11-07 04:03:51
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Post » Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:09 am

Here's a link to the blog post:

https://www.scirra.com/blog/ashley/3/tech-blog-tilemap-tidbits

I guess it's best not use it for collision until Ashley decides what he'll do with it, if it's just going to change.
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Post » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:28 pm

I'm just posting here my comment made on the blog.

[quote]@Ashley,

I started to work in a new game to use and abuse of the new features, and learn from it.

Using the TMX system to map a stage is awesome, and mix it with invisible solid shapes is amazing.

Looking for the feature, like it's actually, I just missed animated tiles. Using your philosophy of commas, it could use something like this:

X = Grass / Earth;
Y = Water;

XXX XXX YY XXX

While Y use 3 consecutive tiles to be animated, with 5 fps of speed, so, it could be, in the tileset, an arrangement like this.

X Y1 Y2 Y3

And inside the code with commas, 6x1, 3x2x3, 3x1, and then, setting the fps globally for a tileset object, so, whenever it call a third part of the multiplication.

Plus, if it turn too much complex, you can have it turned into an auto-tile system, like RPG Maker did, using this type of procedural:
6x1, 2x3c, 3x1 (where c is an alternative index of a pre-formated tileset, see below)
blog.rpgmakerweb.com/tutorials/anatomy-of-an-autotile/

It's can be a special part of the software, where it will always be displaying animated tiles with the same exactly setup, making the image format standard and easy to use, also, smaller tilesets specially designed for animations like water, doors, etc.

Plus, auto-tiles have the nice behavior of know where the edges are, and fill them always when possible.
blog.rpgmakerweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/AT-OSeperate.png

And on platform games, make water surfaces with those animated tiles, also auto-tiling the scenario would be great!

I'm very excited with this new feature, and everyone here sent you a special hug and thank you![/quote]
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Post » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:55 pm

@alspal - oops, I think the debugger doesn't count tilemap collisions at all yet. Will fix that for next build.
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