Todays challenge: Top down SPS

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Post » Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:54 pm

Just some more experimenting, but the question is how would you do a second person, or behind view type game where the camera is top down?

Off the top of my head I would probably say change the layer angle to the players angle, and then have the camera focus on player, but wow that can get pretty confusing with all the background rotation.

Any other thoughts on what you might do?
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Post » Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:18 pm

I'd keep the camera fixed, facing one direction. The level would still be flat and top down, but the artwork would appear to be from a lower angle. I'd avoid rotation in that case, it would be a headache having to basically recreate the entire map for every angle. You could still happily have characters going behind objects though, and even fade them out when the player is behind them.

Or, if Meshes can have their angles/perspective changed, I'd do it that way and then allow the whole level to rotate around the camera. But that's going in the realms of 3D and would be easier in something else.
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Post » Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:24 pm

Layout rotation in 2D is a bad idea, honestly. Some old games like Contra on SNES do this in their topdown levels, and honestly speaking it feels terrible.

You could probably pull off some 3D stuff with meshes and so but honestly, instead of having all that work put into making a somewhat-decent sorta-3D thing just make a good 2D thing instead with the same work.
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Post » Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:38 pm

Screenshots from an old favorite of mine, using the look I mentioned (though you could make the angle a little closer to almost sideways and still get away with it), yet another on my "I wanna remake that" list, lol.







As you can see, if you put invisible collision boxes at the base of walls instead of covering them completely, you'd still stop characters going through them, but allow them to go behind them. Then fade the wall out a little so you don't vanish completely (making sure you've got some artwork behind it, so when it fades out to show your character, it's not void behind there).

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You could always make four layouts per level. With different angles of everything, all repositioned to match, and then any etc. characters, objects etc. only created in the first layout, and the others all told to copy them from the first, put reposition everything. But I'm not sure if that would cause things to stutter when changing angle/layout, and it would probably be more complicated than it needs to be.

If Meshes were fixed for tiling though, and could have their angle of distortion changed (so instead of coming at the screen, they'd go toward the top of it) that "might" work and let you rotate to any angle smoothly, without requiring lots of extra artwork to display backsides (use pre-distorted images which look terrible flat, but perfect when stretched by the mesh). But I've a sinking feeling that meshes wouldn't rotate correctly in construct to do that, and they'd all end up rotating locally while rotating around the player, rather than just world rotation.

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You could also use a magnify effect with a gradient, so the lower area of the screen magnifies more than the top, giving a fake mode7/perspective look to the screen (from an old thread I made about it). Coupled with the already angled artwork to appear more from the side than the top, it might help add to the feeling of over the shoulder view.

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You could also look into what madster is working on, for the brawler/Golden Axe style games. That might work for something like this too?
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Post » Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:46 pm

Second person game? that sounds scary!
The game character would stare at the screen and would make you do things O_O

In games, like in literature, we talk about how will we perceive the protagonist.
1st person: Me. I am the protaginist. I see through his eyes.
2nd person: You. O_O maybe.... you're watching someone else play?
3rd person: Him. He is the protagonist, and I control him.

and then, there's "behind view where the camera is top down".... which would mean our character is laying face down on the ground?

Sneaky edit: I get it now, both behind and top... usually called 3/4 perspective or isometric (btw isometric means a right angle pointed at the viewer will have projected 30 edges on both sides... it's a very specific projection).

O_o I don't get it.
If you meant 3rd person, from behind..... then I'd have to agree with LMK: either sprites standing up on an inclined plane or my very own 2.5d system which is not done yet ( D: ). You'd just go upwards instead of to the side.

Like so!
[url:ye7cjxs8]http://octavoarte.cl/25d_conceptv.exe[/url:ye7cjxs8]
Keep in mind this is the same engine as before, I just enlarged the layout, placed more objects and tweaked camera and blur. So it still crashes under 20fps.
Edit: making this demo showed me I do need to consider height in the ordering. Notice how platforms below the "bridge" show over it. Try walking below the bridge. I'll have to think of something there.
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Post » Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:24 pm

[quote="Madster":pueo737k]Like so!
[url:pueo737k]http://octavoarte.cl/25d_conceptv.exe[/url:pueo737k][/quote:pueo737k]

THAT'S AWESOME :shock:

Seriously, looking really good, man. Needs a little work on the clipping and such but it's coming along :)
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Post » Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:55 pm

Thx thx... I have to come up with proper ordering.

Right now, spriting requirements for this system are:
-Everything is cylinder-ish (a base, extruded upwards).
-Collision mask must be drawn as the cylinder's base.
-Hotspot must be vertically set to the top of the collision mask (horizontal doesn't matter, I think)

Right now I just order by the internal vertical (ry) coordinate, so objects further away go behind. But height (w: distance from base to zero plane) is not even considered. So when you walk under the bridge, the bridge is further away and it's drawn behind you... but you're lower and it should cover you!

I'm thinking it's probably ry+w*c, where c is a constant indicating camera inclination, 1 is 45.
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Post » Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:12 pm

Um, all I get is a stick figure dropping down...???

Edit:
Let me clear this up a bit. What I'm looking for is something similar to the Ghost shooter tut, but with the player always facing north. The camera would be behind the player just a bit, and all the objects, and backgrounds would rotate into view as the players angle changes.
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Post » Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:18 am

I've seen that game mechanic before (though I don't recall where) and that kind of control just seemed kind of sluggish to me. Not that it actually was, it's just that psychologically speaking it didn't seem like I had as much fine control over the player. It's like you're lugging the world around rather than moving through it.

It's not quite as bothersome in 3D, but a few 3rd person shooters I've played have felt like that a bit too.
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Post » Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:05 am

[quote="newt":3o4ngpcj]
Let me clear this up a bit. What I'm looking for is something similar to the Ghost shooter tut, but with the player always facing north. The camera would be behind the player just a bit, and all the objects, and backgrounds would rotate into view as the players angle changes.[/quote:3o4ngpcj]

That is still a third person shooter for some reason.
Unless the in that view you are actually a second person shooting over the first person. :lol:
Now that's a second person shooter. :D
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