Visual, How Visual is Visual?

New releases and general discussions.

Post » Fri May 08, 2009 9:53 am

Wow, I really wouldn't have thought this would evoke such... um, er ..passion.

Now from an artist's point of view I understand your plight, some of the concepts may seem very foreign, and exactly opposite of what is expected. Then again as an artist I understand that in order to be able to do something new, sometimes I must dive into the code itself to figure out how to do it.

Also, coming from an open source community, I know that you have to be able to know how something works, in order to convey what you think would work better. You cant just complain about it, and expect change. You have to provide positive feedback, and a likely solution.
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Post » Fri May 08, 2009 11:46 am

Haha, way to hit a nerve with the community Psmith ;)

I think we've established renaming a variable to something like "remember" is extremely counterintuitive - it actually makes it more obscure and impenetrable - the opposite effect to the one you intended - because the rest of the world calls it a variable. Still, if you're looking for a game development tool which you don't even need to use variables, have a look at something like Popfly or Kodu if it's released, but you'll probably find yourself severely limited in what you can create. If you want to create games as complex as Construct can without touching such basic building blocks as variables, good luck with that :P There's a thing to counter terms and concepts you don't understand, and it's called "learning"!

For context, here are some of the things you have to specify or consider when declaring a variable in C++. This is not exhaustive, just off the top of my head. Perhaps it will give you some perspective on how far simplified Construct is already:
- constant or variable
- static, global, or local to a specific scope and if so its lifetime before leaving scope
- volatile for thread safety
- a fixed unchangable type such as boolean, integer (8, 16, 32 or 64 bits signed or unsigned), floating point (single, double or long double precision), string or text (wide/multibyte via const char* C style arrays or a handling class such as std::string or MFC CString)
- initial value, where class const member variables must be defined in class initializer lists
- memory address, location on stack or dynamic allocation on heap, heap memory deallocation, alignment, structure packing or array alignment
- assignment involving implicit and explicit casts, possibly involving operator overloads, conversion routines, and associated performance penalties

In Construct, all you need to say is whether it's text or a number, and its initial value. Hopefully you can see how far it's already been simplified in Construct and how much technical jargon has already been removed. Renaming a variables is a step too far though. That's what they've always been called and always will be called. There's no need to take that last step.
Scirra Founder
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Post » Fri May 08, 2009 11:53 am

Now where'd he go?
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Post » Fri May 08, 2009 11:55 am

Wouldn't be surprised if the angry mob scared him away ;)
Scirra Founder
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Post » Fri May 08, 2009 12:00 pm

What exactly is so wrong with the name such as 'variable'? Just think of it as something that is able to vary. It can change. You put a number in it, you can use it, you can then change it. There's no reason to call it 'remember'. Just remember yourself what it means.

(Sorry if this sounds mean, but a lot of people here have attempted to explain it and you don't seem to be listening :|)
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Post » Fri May 08, 2009 12:18 pm

I guess it's not really his fault.. Maybe he's some 10 year old kid who doesn't know his algebra and so variables..
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Post » Fri May 08, 2009 12:27 pm

It was more that he blatantly assumed that we all are stuck up programmers... which is only true for FEW members of the community. Most of us aren't even programmers, otherwise you'd see like 1000 plugins for Construct ;)

So, just because we, non-programmers, are fine with common technical jargon such as 'variables', he goes out to call us programmers... what an insult! :x ;)
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Post » Fri May 08, 2009 3:11 pm

I'm so glad to read your many replies to my simple questions and statements. They have told me much about yourselves and your philosophies. And, from what I can gather, most of you are not even programmers, yet, for some reason you are attracted to the use of non-descriptive and counter intuitive terminology and structure. Many of you admit that you have failed to grasp "modern" programming languages, and that is why you have come here to learn Construct - which maintains that same programming paradigm that has given you such fits. Quite a dilemma for you, I should think.

[quote:2j3po168]Using industry standard terms which happen to be the best and most suitable terms does not make a product difficult or less intuitive, quite the opposite.
[/quote:2j3po168]
This statement assumes that because the industry uses this standard of terminology that it automatically makes it the "best and most suitable". For whom, I might ask?

Really, I do understand both terms: variable and global variable, I just don't find them very descriptive, nor do I find terms like "function", "exception", "z-depth",(since not all software uses the Z axis to define depth), and many many more.

It seems that those who initially "invented" programming conventions didn't spend much time thinking about what words really mean in English, and this would explain why these conventions survive until this day.

And those of you who think you need to be proficient in advanced mathematics to make the simple things found in today's AAA games, which sell millions of copies, might possibly be in danger of making your heads explode, as it appears our dear friend Deadeye's head might do at any moment.

Good day,

Psmith
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Post » Fri May 08, 2009 3:23 pm

Look, it's really just about semantics here...

The fact is: If you're not a programmer and you take the time to learn the application, you can create games that are on par with what a programmer with a ton of programming experience can do.

And that's a wonderful thing.

I have never been able to grasp any programming language, I _SUCK_ even at simple math, yet every programmer I've shown my project to loves what I'm doing using Construct.

Let's not argue about semantics, let's just be productive, let us create.
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Post » Fri May 08, 2009 3:26 pm



The program is open source. He should find someone to help him go in and change all the expressions so even the mentally challenged can make pong.
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