What payment option would you like to see for Construct 3?

Post » Mon May 15, 2017 11:04 pm

Ashley wrote:We'd rather come up with one system focused on browser usage that covers everything. The standalone versions are basically a bonus for Windows, Mac and Linux users only


@Ashley
Game engines are a bit of a special case. People work on long term projects and absolutely do not want automatic updates to the editor or runtime. There's a reason Unity has every old release available for download, and even releases patches for old versions of the engine. Once you're on a release it can be a big headache to upgrade even one version ahead. You have to study patch notes like crazy and see if they apply to you. You have to re-test the entire game and hope nothing broke. Every little fix or change in a new version can heavily affect a big project. Will users be able to launch the release version of their choice when launching construct 3? If that's not an option on all platforms, that's a pretty big problem. You don't want someone on Chrome OS to always be running the latest version automatically. Users MUST be able to freeze their release version for stability reasons, including if there's no standalone versions. And users should be warned when saving an older version project to a new version.

EDIT: Ok, it appears that you can launch old releases from the website at least.
Last edited by Davioware on Tue May 16, 2017 12:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post » Mon May 15, 2017 11:10 pm

@ashley I have to agree with @Davioware

Also good luck with the rent model :)
It was worth trying to convince you how you may hit more customers by letting us continue to work on our projects (at least!) on the standalone version, even when the license has ran out.
I can see now that you are dead on set to never let a single construct 3 user actually ever own construct 3 :lol:

I may come back and buy a license if you ever change your mind.. if I am not using Fusion 3 or something else by then
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Post » Tue May 16, 2017 12:01 am

Davioware wrote:
@Ashley
Game engines are a bit of a special case. People work on long term projects and absolutely do not want automatic updates to the editor or runtime. There's a reason Unity has every old release available for download, and even releases patches for old versions of the engine. Once you're on a release it can be a big headache to upgrade even one version ahead. You have to study patch notes like crazy and see if they apply to you. You have to re-test the entire game and hope nothing broke. Every little fix or change in a new version can heavily affect a big project. Will users be able to launch the release version of their choice when launching construct 3? If that's not an option on all platforms, that's a pretty big problem. You don't want someone on Chrome OS to always be running the latest version automatically. Users MUST be able to freeze their release version for stability reasons, including if there's no standalone versions. And users should be warned when saving an older version project to a new version.


Makes sense, I wouldn't want my game to break due to an auto-update. But that would be an easy fix in settings I guess. Turn off auto updates.

Otherwise.
https://www.construct.net/mt/make-games/releases
They seem have all previous releases here though, not sure if cashed version reverts back to old version though, but it seems you can have multiple cashed versions. Just pick your desired release. ;)
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Post » Tue May 16, 2017 12:05 am

@tunepunk

Old versions are served from a unique URL so they can be run independently of each other.
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Post » Tue May 16, 2017 12:06 am

blurymind wrote:It was worth trying to convince you how you may hit more customers by letting us continue to work on our projects (at least!) on the standalone version, even when the license has ran out.


Emphasis on "may". It may work out, it may not. We'll find out soon enough.
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Post » Tue May 16, 2017 12:54 am

Hi,

Let me give my observation as an actual Adobe CC Subscriber.

I pay $52 a month and get all their apps. Which is a reasonable price considering what you get and how many apps I use.
Their software is downloadable, but their CC Subscription is just a licensing engine that keeps track of users.
However, Adobe doesn't really upgrade their software with new features except about once a year.

Is it worth it? In the long run, it depends on your use of the software.
However, as a subscription service; it is only good if you are a person who always upgraded your software every year -- before the subscription model.

I personally DO NOT LIKE subscription based plans, especially if the software is browser based. The reasons are...

1) An online version will never have enough new features added to make paying all those fees worth while.
2) A browser based app can never have the same power as a Desktop app that has total access to the pc. I know because I do programming for PC software too.
3) Subscription based software is a bad ideal because it will alienate those who can't afford subscription based.

I am not against browser based software as long it doesn't limit speed and functionality.
And being a programmer myself, I know that having an application that is browser based is much easier to maintain and upgrade.
It is an ideal situation if it can work.

However, running a web application will always have limitations compared to software developed in C/C++ (or similar).
So, if you can offer a web-based app with a downloadable equivalent software... you will have more sales.

I am currently lining up alternative apps to Adobe's CC... and so far I have found all of them but a good replacement for Animate (Flash/Html5). I have one I am trying out; Opus Pro seemed like a good choice, but getting the software and support was very difficult... so I passed.

I then turned to GameMaker and Construct.... because they both have html5 export.
However, I was going to Buy Contruct 2, then i saw Contruct 3 with this ridiculous subscription.

Not only am I not going to buy Contruct 2 because it will eventually die. But, neither am I paying for software that runs on a browser that I have to pay every year, with little major feature releases.

ToonBoom's Harmony has the RIGHT Idea.... offer a subscription and a perpetual license to those who want to buy it out-right!!!
It's just too bad their pricing is ridiculously too high for a lot of beginners.

Be SMART Scirra!!!
Don't alienate beginners or those who can't afford or don't want to pay a subscription.

There are still a lot of people who would rather buy software out-right and run it for 3-4 years until a justifiable upgrade is offered.
It is actually cheaper for a person to buy it out-right than pay a high fee every year and end up paying for 2-3 versions worth with very little improvement.

It's too bad.
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Post » Tue May 16, 2017 4:13 am

If you're on Windows there's little reason to use or subscribe to C3 right now.

C2 does more than C3 right now, due to third party additions that greatly expand the feature set. I wouldn't put off buying C2 just because C3 is out; it's still useful and very good software, and they'll support it for a while. You won't get new features anymore, but it doesn't need new features really, it's pretty complete as is. Buy C2, it's great. C3 is just a browser based version of C2 with no third party support right now, and it's still in infancy.

What's really puzzling about this sub model is that they're releasing C3 with very little meaningful improvement over C2, no third party support (plugins have yet to be ported etc), and useful features way out on the horizon. When C2 first came out, it was CHEAPER because it was new and lacking features, hence the "early adopter" period. Once it got better, the price went up from there. With C3 you're an early adopter but you're paying full price right now unless you get that discount from owning C2. Will this mean the price to sub will go up even more once things like the new runtime come out? I don't think it will, but I sure hope not.

You need to retain something from a subscription as well. It would make people feel invested in the program and make them feel like they own it. The problem with subscriptions is that people don't want to subscribe in the first place if they know they'll end up with nothing. It's not like a magazine subscription where you get something concrete. Subbing for 5 years means 500$. At the end of those 5 years, you've got nothing to show for it, and are locked out of editing your projects. It's a huge disincentive to using the software in the first place. Consider letting people keep the versions released during their sub period. You will get a lot more customers this way, including ones who will continue to subscribe year after year just as you want. The idea that they own something will make them happy, and you won't be losing anything. Many people are extremely opposed to renting software. In this way people pay for continued updates, instead of continued use.
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Post » Tue May 16, 2017 10:04 am

@Davioware

Exactly... I pay all that money to Adobe, and when I get out of my subscription.... I have nothing.
Will not be repeating that again.

I still won't buy C2 because I know in the end... it's life will eventually come to end.
I don't mind upgrading my software. But if an app has no life expectancy, then why jump in.

Adobe has set a bad precedence because they can get away with.
But, Scirra.... small company may not survive if all they offer is a subscription.
I would re-think this plan if I was them.

Looks like my only alternative is GameMaker.
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Post » Tue May 16, 2017 12:52 pm

I don't know if it's up for debate but I'd be interested in knowing how long it will take to work out if the rental model is profitable? Don't most companies that switch to rental models lose money at least for a few years until things pick up? If C3 isn't mature/appealing enough for people to take the plunge, and new users also stop buying C2 because it's no longer considered supported, and most of your C3 users are those who transitioned over from C2 and therefore have a 50% discount, isn't it going to be a while before you 1. get any proper money coming through 2. get an accurate forecast of what you're actually going to be earning? I fear that if things go pear shaped, by the time things can be turned around people will have already abandoned C3 and moved on.
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Post » Tue May 16, 2017 1:06 pm

We have a steady flow of new customers every day. As you've identified, the difficult part will be one day switching over that traffic into buying Construct 3 instead of Construct 2. As long as it happens reasonably smoothly and at similar levels then we won't have any problems.

RE subscription companies losing money that's mainly if you're aggressively look to acquire customers, EG spending $150 to acquire a customer you know on average will subscribe for 3x years at $100 p/y. You'll not see a return on that customer until their 2nd years payment. Without investment or reserves, you'll have big cashflow problems. This is an option to explore perhaps in the future, and if we do we're well funded enough to do it if we wanted.

Launching a new product is always a high risk pursuit for a company (don't underestimate this). Switching to a new payment model also adds more volatility but we're not worried as we're confident in our direction, well funded enough to not have to worry financially and highly confident in the product itself which is the main thing!
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