What payment option would you like to see for Construct 3?

Post » Mon May 08, 2017 12:16 pm

Ashley wrote:I think it's pretty obvious if you ask a question which amounts to "do you want to pay more or less?" people are going to click the "less" option. Or if you ask "what other payment models should Scirra use?" the answer will be "the one I hardly have to pay anything at all". The business has to also at least survive, and ideally be able to keep improving the product.


I don't think the poll really shows that, there is no price on the one time payment so who says it's cheaper? It just demonstrates that people don't want to rent software. If you charged $500 for C3 and I could buy it outright, I wouldn't even hesitate. Bang, it would be bought. You've already proven yourselves to be excellent developers with C2 and I want to continue using that kind of workflow. And you'd have 5 years of 'subscription' money from me straight away, you wouldn't even need to wait for it. With a rental system, I am hesitating a lot. Very ambivalent. Most of your critics of the rental system don't want your company to fail, we want it to keep improving and want to keep being a part of it and in a lot of cases money hasn't really got anything to do with it, it's the direction it's going that is the problem. But that's just me, someone else in the community might be horrified at paying $500 up front for a piece of software, or might not be able to afford it etc. It will be impossible to keep everyone happy.
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Post » Mon May 08, 2017 1:20 pm

AuShadow wrote:Subscription for updates is very open to abuse. Let's say one user on yearly subscription gets his 12 updates (1 a month), and user 2 who hasn't subbed in the last 12 months, pays 1 month sub and grabs the latest version then unsubs again. Getting the same end result as guy 1 but not really paying enough to support further development

you could still discourage it by enforcing an extra fee if the user was not subscribed in a previous year :)
For example after it runs out, the user has one month in order to subscribe again or lose 20% discount! That time window creates urgency for the user to subscribe again or lose the discount.

I would subscribe, if subscription meant software updates and support for a year.
Similar to bitwig
https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopi ... 7&t=477140
You subscribe to software updates - similar to how you would subscribe to a magazine.
At the end of the year - you get to keep the mag issues! But they obviously get outdated if you dont pay next year.
That creates a real incentive for the developer to actually work hard and add new features to keep people motivated to be subscribed.

Right now the definition that construct3 is using for "subscription" is really "rent" - or limited time access to use the software!
The current model forces the user to pay for "subscription" for access, regardless - as you would lose access completely to your own work (that has hundreds/thousands of events).

But hey, if that makes more money - which scirra seems to really need at the moment - hope it works out too.
The software limitations and uncertainty that is imposed as a result is simply not viable to an indie guy like me and thus probably why so many people here are angry and frustrated by the change :?
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Post » Mon May 08, 2017 2:02 pm

Ashley wrote:I think it's pretty obvious if you ask a question which amounts to "do you want to pay more or less?" people are going to click the "less" option. Or if you ask "what other payment models should Scirra use?" the answer will be "the one I hardly have to pay anything at all". The business has to also at least survive, and ideally be able to keep improving the product.


@Ashley I really don't get impression at all.
I get the impression it's not really about the price but the model.
I am happy that you have provided some information regarding the possibility of working on a solution where people aren't cut off from their projects. I'm glad the discussions on the forums at least highlighted that and it eases the apprehensions a bit.

I do feel that your market analysis did not provide a view on what the users would need but rather what you as a company need. Also no problem with that, you guys need to do well, and indeed deserve to do well imho.
The problem is when the users arent happy you will lose money.

A response to your closing comment in the "Petition thread" if you don't mind. Your user base are not stupid sheep just because they are not programmers, Not all of us are moms basement dweller indies - please keep that in mind, some of us are analysts, CEO's, scientists and engineers who might be dabbling with games / game development in their spare time. :)

Anycase, you guys will know whats best after the first 2 years if it's going well or not and if it meets your targets.
I think I got what I wanted out of the poll, maybe you got something out of it for what was a very un-scientific method of seeing what I was reading on the various threads.
I'm subscribing for the first year. You have my support on that and I'll give Scirra the benefit of the doubt.
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Post » Mon May 08, 2017 6:18 pm

I'm a little relieved this debate is over. Subscription it is. Pay it or don't.

@Ashley

Just a suggestion on allowing people to continue to edit their projects after their subscription runs out, it would be nice if a person is allotted time instead of limited amount of edits. No one knows how many edits it's going to take to fix a bug. I'm not sure what you are currently considering, but please consider this:

Idea #1:
- 30 minutes a day
- Time resets every day
- Unused time is not accumulated

Idea #2:
- About 10 hours a month
- Time resets every month
- 20 minutes a day is accumulated until the end of the month.

Now that C3 is in a browser, there is no reason you can control how many hours people use it for free. So instead of limited events and sprites like you are currently doing, maybe allow people full access for a limited amount of time. Currently, the free version isn't enough to give people a good understanding of what C3 is capable of, but a full featured trial will.
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Post » Mon May 08, 2017 7:31 pm

Moot wrote:it would be nice if a person is allotted time instead of limited amount of edits.

That's impossible to police. With options like changing device, renewing IPs, signing up new accounts, clearing browser storage, and changing the system time, people will easily figure out ways to use it indefinitely.
Scirra Founder
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Post » Mon May 08, 2017 7:45 pm

Tbh it is pointless even discussing this, Ashley & Co are determined to run C3 off a cliffs edge and into oblivion, we've had our say, so now it's time to move on to other software and let C3 crash and burn.

Perhaps a few months down the line if subs are really bad, they'll rethink things, but until then no point going over it all tbh. just move on but keep one eye on the forums.
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Post » Mon May 08, 2017 9:44 pm

Ashley wrote:
Moot wrote:it would be nice if a person is allotted time instead of limited amount of edits.

That's impossible to police. With options like changing device, renewing IPs, signing up new accounts, clearing browser storage, and changing the system time, people will easily figure out ways to use it indefinitely.

Who in the world would go through all that effort simply to run it for another 10 minutes :lol:

but yeah you are right, the clock thing is easy to cheat, unless you have a user login system - which you do.
Thus construct3 can check the user account to get the number of minutes that user has spent for the day - that stuff can be tracked on your server :roll:
Hell even this forum tracks how many minutes every user is logged in.
So regardless of their ip, hardware clock or device, the time has been clocked on your server.
That should give you some interesting activity stats - if you dont already have those.
You are just coming up with ways to avoid implementing something you dont want again. I have to admit that the 10 minute per day thing sounds annoying to put effort into making and not really worth the effort. Fixing a bug takes more than 10 minutes.

Edit: sorry, 30 minutes* a day - still not worth it.
I guess then people will start cheating by creating multiple accounts, which is still a pain in the behind to police
Last edited by blurymind on Mon May 08, 2017 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post » Mon May 08, 2017 9:55 pm

blurymind wrote:but yeah you are right, the clock thing is easy to cheat, unless you have a user login system - which you do.
Thus construct3 can check the user account to get the number of minutes that user has spent for the day - that stuff can be tracked on your server :roll:
Hell even this forum tracks how many minutes every user is logged in.

Yeah well, I saw a user on here recently who hacked his account to have a million reputation points or whatever, along with all the badges. He had 2 posts total I think.
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Post » Mon May 08, 2017 10:01 pm

It's a matter of time until they hack construct3 too.. restrictions like these are like a honeypot for people with way too much free time on their hands.
You are right, the forum is already a hacking target for various creeps and crazy chinese spambots.
Buildbox was almost instantly leaked, when they announced that INSANE pricing and model. Everyone thinks they are scammers on different game engine forums.

What Im trying to say is that - people are people. They are either on your side or some other side. Better to have them on your side in bigger numbers
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Post » Mon May 08, 2017 10:29 pm

Guys - you just need to move on - Scirra will not listen - Ashley said as much in the last thread he locked.

C3 is SAAS. To be fair the price is ok, but the lockout model is not - it is obvious C2's twin is not going to be friendly any more.

Other engine developers are well aware of the discontent Scirra has created and wants to maintain - so there may even be incentives with their products.

This thread and others like it will be locked, users who continue to voice their opinion against it will eventually be banned - and neither will be listened to anyway - so just get out there in google land - There are options.
Last edited by michael on Mon May 08, 2017 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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