What payment option would you like to see for Construct 3?

Post » Fri May 12, 2017 1:07 pm

How about if the subscription was just to export your game. You pay once for the software and get exports for a year, then after that you only pay to export your game. You can open/edit/preview your game, but not export unless you pay.
B
29
S
14
G
9
Posts: 80
Reputation: 5,998

Post » Fri May 12, 2017 1:17 pm

blurymind wrote:I am sorry, I was not initially aware of @x3m's account being hacked and @lamar 's behavior


OK phew, I'm glad we're making progress :) Am happy to talk to you about your concerns.

Regardless of how long these threads lasted, they were eventually getting locked, as obviously they started to become toxic. But that stuff is all bad publicity too.


We've always just locked toxic stuff since we started. Benefit is we have a nicer community - downside I guess is someone might come and look at is as bad publicity (which quite frankly I'm not sure I beleive - lots of forums have locked threads but I guess if you want to argue that point you can believe it if you want). A trade-off we're happy with.

The spambots have been poluting this forum for ages now and having @x3m 's account hacked and product removed makes it look like security here is not handled well - directly affecting a vendor and a product on the store (I bought his product btw).


Two issues here, spam and hacked accounts. It's important they are not conflated as a single issue because they are quite different.

Spam
Yes, is a bit problem. Am taking a much more aggressive approach to it on the new website. At the moment, there is no user generated content available (but plans to allow it don't worry as per this site!). I've researched it a lot, learnt what works/doesn't work on Scirra and am extremely confident going forwards it will be less of an issue. I get it's an issue here now. Popular sites will always attract spammers.

Hacked Accounts
X3M's is the only hacked account in recent memory (I'm struggling to think of any other examples in our 6 years) that looks like it's been hacked. Your assertion that:

X3M's account hacked = our security is not handled well

Is fallacious, it could equally be the password was weak, leaked on another website and he uses the same one here, or he left his computer open, or his email was hacked etc etc. List goes on. The fact we've never seen a wide spread account breach leads me to think it's a one off and not an underlying problem with our security.

Secondly, with the new site I have upgraded the security in a host of ways. I'm not going to go into them now for a couple of reasons:

* A lot are numerous and small improvements
* It's not in our interest to talk about what parts of our security we're improving

How integrated is the forum account with the account for using the engine?


On the new site, virtually not at all. There is some negotiation between the sites to ensure if you sign up on Construct.net though you get a Scirra.com account. We are moving away from the forum as our authentication model.

Does construct3 prompt for dropbox password prior to getting access to the hosted project?


Can you explain what you mean please? Dropbox doesn't just allow anyone to modify anyone elses account. NO payment information is stored on our systems such as CC numbers. All payment data of that nature is handled off site with Stripe.

Can a hacker who gained access to an account retrieve other sensitive data from the victim?


Like every online service out there, if a hacker gains access to your account they will be able to login and look at your account.

Retrieving a stolen account - account protection - what measures are there?


Industry standard SSL encryption
HSTS implemented on Construct.net
Improved hashing algorithm for passwords
Improved rate limiting for brute forces
Improved infastructure security designed by Rackspace
Improved support interface with IP lockdown

Will the EULA of construct3 free you from any responsibility if the victim loses work?


Yes, of course. This is completely standard for pretty much all software in existence.

My question to you now is, how many other companies have you asked these questions to? These are basically pretty bog standard questions regarding operation of a website - and I can't help but feel for some reason you might be treating us differently due to your unhappiness with the direction we're going. Am I wrong or are these concerns you have with all our competitors as well?

Secondly, I hope you appreciate me responding to you as it's apparent you have no intention of buying Construct 3 from what I can see in other forums and you seem to be one of only a very small number of users engaging in this vein of questioning.
Image Image
Scirra Founder
B
175
S
41
G
34
Posts: 4,384
Reputation: 54,238

Post » Fri May 12, 2017 1:37 pm

Tom wrote:Secondly, I hope you appreciate me responding to you as it's apparent you have no intention of buying Construct 3 from what I can see in other forums and you seem to be one of only a very small number of users engaging in this vein of questioning.

I don't want to answer in @blurymind 's place, but I definitely appreciate your answer. It's helpful and informative for other users as well.
B
135
S
33
G
17
Posts: 1,557
Reputation: 20,721

Post » Fri May 12, 2017 1:41 pm

OK thanks for that, glad it's of interest to other people as well!
Image Image
Scirra Founder
B
175
S
41
G
34
Posts: 4,384
Reputation: 54,238

Post » Fri May 12, 2017 2:01 pm

blurymind wrote:The spambots have been poluting this forum for ages now


As of any forums on the internet.

Concerning spam bots, Askimet, the anti spam filter does take out a lot of messages of the spam bots. There may remain a trace in the index of the forum at the moment the post is deleted, but if you attempt to reach that kind of topic, you will end up on a message telling you the topic does not exist. And the trace will disappear at the moment an actual legit post is posted.
Otherwise, moderators will delete and remove spam messages they see when they are on the forums and/or that have been reported.
And that's the last point, if you happen to see some spam bot actual posts, please feel free to use the report icon in the top right of the post/topic a moderator will look into it during the day.

Finally, some "intelligent spam" is not always easy to detect. Actual people creating "legit accounts" and posting a few "legit messages" at first. Then the account goes dormant for months and someday, a bot logs in and edit their message to post actual spam.
Hard to detect before the spam happens. And if you happen to see this sort of messages, again, PLEASE do report them.

We may have less mods during the week-end, sure, so spam may last a bit longer as well during those days.
But we haven't had a major flood spam for months, showing that the anti-spam measures are active and at work.

So unless you are referring to something I'm really unaware of (and in which case I would love for you to send me links/reports to the topics you mention so we can efficiently moderate them), I'm afraid your point/impression on spam in the forums may be actually wrong/biased.
New to Construct ? Where to start

Image Image

Image Image

Please attach a capx to any help request or bug report !
Moderator
B
293
S
117
G
96
Posts: 7,310
Reputation: 71,069

Post » Fri May 12, 2017 2:05 pm

Before anyone jumps down my neck on the number of posts I have, I have been a member since 2013, I’m just not a big forum poster on most sites I have accounts with & I’ll admit that I have not used Construct 2 (or other engines) in some time, but looking to get back into it development.

Regardless of my thoughts on software subscriptions (not a fan), I have read quite a number of posts regarding this and other users complaints & must say that some people’s attitudes and posts are seriously taking the 'P', there really has been no need for some of the aggressive posts directed at the Scirra guys. I can empathise with people in regards to the subscription model, but I’m sure it wasn't an easy decision knowing the back lash that would occur on their forum.

As a small business, the guys need to find a cost effective way of improving their IP & if a subscription is what they have deemed best, then either accept it or move on, which has been said countless times, give the 1st year ago at least & see how it progresses.

I am mostly interested in the new Scirra hosted build service they announced & look forward to hearing people’s experiences with it for Android/iOS when C3 is officially released, thats the deal breaker for me.
B
16
S
4
G
1
Posts: 11
Reputation: 1,592

Post » Fri May 12, 2017 2:08 pm

Just imagine the price going up 5 cents each time one of the communities users makes a repetitive post about their their discontent with the payment model and tags Ashley or Tom in it....

... their time is likely far more valuable then 5 cents each time they need to read the posts and reply ....

So, for the love of sanity .... please stop the attempts to get a majority of users to agree to something that will not happen and ride out their set path ....


Some of you guys are really ungrateful ...


In the end ..... there is still C2 .... noone made it an obligation to use C3 .....
Who dares wins
B
57
S
17
G
21
Posts: 1,878
Reputation: 19,572

Post » Fri May 12, 2017 2:29 pm

For those still sceptical about subscription model, I'm going to try explaining why I think they chose that way.

Why pay once is not a good idea for scirra.

Let's say 1 user buys a licence for 100€ ... Scirra earn some cash... 100€

Now let's go to the cost for running their business:
Scirra has some costs to keep their business running. We all know that right? Server costs, staff costs, tax, licenses, phone and internet bills, office rent, printer paper, etc etc. Let's say scirra has a running cost of 1000€ / week (just as an example) If they are using a pay once model, they have to make sure they sell AT LEAST 10 new licences per week just to cover all the costs.
They have to earn 1000€ per week, to be able to pay their bills for 1000€ per week. But if they sell 10 licences per weeks, that means they get more active users, so most of their costs would increase as well.... After a year, maybe the weekly costs will be 1500 per week, they are forced to sell 15 licences per week to keep up with the costs.

So after a while.... Maybe you payed, 100€ for a licence, but every month you will cost them a little. You are using their software, You are using their forums, maybe you need support, you expect updates, bug fixes etc. Let's say every customer cost scirra 1€ per week just to keep them happy. After 100 weeks (about 2 years). You will still cost them money 1€/week, to keep you as a satisfied customer. You're still using the forums, and you're still using the software, and their support and getting updates. The only way to make sure you are not costing them money from that point is to release a new product, that hopefully you will buy. But now they have 2 products they need to maintain... the old product AND the new product. Double work to keep both groups happy.... that both expect updates, support, access to forums, etc etc.

Instead of releasing a new product every other year or so, hoping old and new users will buy it, they created C3 with a subscription model, so that they can make sure they get a steady income without having to start planning for C4 already, and taking care of all old customers, that are still costing them money. If they made C3 a pay once model, they are back to step one, they have to make sure they sell enough C3 licences every week, to cover all the costs, they have to update, and release new features to keep existing customers happy.

Locked out?
So why are you locked out when you are paying a subscription? Because..... if you subscribe for one year, but still can use, the software, the forums, get support, etc you are still costing them money...They NEED your income on a regular basis to keep scirra going as a business and continue to update their product, with new features and bug fixes.

They are not punishing anyone, getting greedy, or locking people out, they are trying to find a way to make sure you will continue to support their continued development. If they gave people full access to editing after the subscription ran out, you're still costing them money, as long as you don't subscribe again. It would be the same as selling a pay once licence. I totally understand why they moved over to a subscription model, but sadly many people here still don't...

I understand why they get frustrated, when people don't understand their decision to move to a subscription model. Many customers don't see that scirra NEED their support on a regular basis to continue to provide a good product, without having to worry about get X amount of new users every week just to keep scirra alive as a business...

Principles aside
If you like C2/C3, please put your "principles" aside, and try to understand WHY they moved to a subscription model. They are doing a great job, they are active to answer to your concerns, and it's not an overpriced product, for what you get. Asking you to pay once a year for a product that you love to use, is not too much to ask... hobbyist or professional. It's still worth the money... I would also hope for a monthly option, because I can also be inactive and during extended periods of time, but they probably have a reason for not offering that at the moment, but maybe it will come.

Keep up the good work, Scirra team..., and people still sceptic towards "renting model" read through my post again, and maybe you will understand. It's purely a business decision to stay afloat, and to be able to provide updates, bugfixes, features, support for years to come for existing customers, without the worry to get more sales and getting new customers to stay afloat.
Follow my progress on Twitter
or in this thread Archer Devlog
B
41
S
18
G
18
Posts: 1,024
Reputation: 13,345

Post » Fri May 12, 2017 2:54 pm

tunepunk wrote:For those still sceptical about subscription model, I'm going to try explaining why I think they chose that way.

Why pay once is not a good idea for scirra.

Let's say 1 user buys a licence for 100€ ... Scirra earn some cash... 100€

Now let's go to the cost for running their business:
Scirra has some costs to keep their business running. We all know that right? Server costs, staff costs, tax, licenses, phone and internet bills, office rent, printer paper, etc etc. Let's say scirra has a running cost of 1000€ / week (just as an example) If they are using a pay once model, they have to make sure they sell AT LEAST 10 new licences per week just to cover all the costs.
They have to earn 1000€ per week, to be able to pay their bills for 1000€ per week. But if they sell 10 licences per weeks, that means they get more active users, so most of their costs would increase as well.... After a year, maybe the weekly costs will be 1500 per week, they are forced to sell 15 licences per week to keep up with the costs.

So after a while.... Maybe you payed, 100€ for a licence, but every month you will cost them a little. You are using their software, You are using their forums, maybe you need support, you expect updates, bug fixes etc. Let's say every customer cost scirra 1€ per week just to keep them happy. After 100 weeks (about 2 years). You will still cost them money 1€/week, to keep you as a satisfied customer. You're still using the forums, and you're still using the software, and their support and getting updates. The only way to make sure you are not costing them money from that point is to release a new product, that hopefully you will buy. But now they have 2 products they need to maintain... the old product AND the new product. Double work to keep both groups happy.... that both expect updates, support, access to forums, etc etc.

Instead of releasing a new product every other year or so, hoping old and new users will buy it, they created C3 with a subscription model, so that they can make sure they get a steady income without having to start planning for C4 already, and taking care of all old customers, that are still costing them money. If they made C3 a pay once model, they are back to step one, they have to make sure they sell enough C3 licences every week, to cover all the costs, they have to update, and release new features to keep existing customers happy.

Locked out?
So why are you locked out when you are paying a subscription? Because..... if you subscribe for one year, but still can use, the software, the forums, get support, etc you are still costing them money...They NEED your income on a regular basis to keep scirra going as a business and continue to update their product, with new features and bug fixes.

They are not punishing anyone, getting greedy, or locking people out, they are trying to find a way to make sure you will continue to support their continued development. If they gave people full access to editing after the subscription ran out, you're still costing them money, as long as you don't subscribe again. It would be the same as selling a pay once licence. I totally understand why they moved over to a subscription model, but sadly many people here still don't...

I understand why they get frustrated, when people don't understand their decision to move to a subscription model. Many customers don't see that scirra NEED their support on a regular basis to continue to provide a good product, without having to worry about get X amount of new users every week just to keep scirra alive as a business...

Principles aside
If you like C2/C3, please put your "principles" aside, and try to understand WHY they moved to a subscription model. They are doing a great job, they are active to answer to your concerns, and it's not an overpriced product, for what you get. Asking you to pay once a year for a product that you love to use, is not too much to ask... hobbyist or professional. It's still worth the money... I would also hope for a monthly option, because I can also be inactive and during extended periods of time, but they probably have a reason for not offering that at the moment, but maybe it will come.

Keep up the good work, Scirra team..., and people still sceptic towards "renting model" read through my post again, and maybe you will understand. It's purely a business decision to stay afloat, and to be able to provide updates, bugfixes, features, support for years to come for existing customers, without the worry to get more sales and getting new customers to stay afloat.


Everyone understands why they're doing it. People are fighting to make it better. There is an opportunity for Scirra to get exactly what they need from us and us to get exactly what we need from them if a proper dialogue can be established but there is a barrier and it's a refusal to change. C3's wonky launch reminds me of that time Valve tried to introduce paid mods on Steam. There was a huge backlash and in no time at all they had (quite sensibly) completely reversed that decision. Scirra's rental model, compared to many other software subscription models is shortsighted, with little attention payed to the needs or wants of its users as demonstrated by the lock out. If they want respect and loyalty they need to be less dismissive of concerns such as people being locked out of their own hard work, which is quite frankly insulting.

Now I realise that the wheels are already in motion, and Ashley has said they want to try to go ahead with their current plans. That's fair enough and it's his right to do that. They probably can't change course at this stage even if they wanted to. I will probably subscribe to C3, but I will remain highly critical of its rental model if changes aren't brought about for better users rights. As many have pointed out, others are already copying the event system - your competition is all over this. You guys really need to up your game so hear me loud and clear - your proposed rental system sucks but you can still fix it. And by fix it I don't mean go back to one off payments. I'm happy to subscribe, just work out a solution for the lock out - no one wants to live in a future like that.
B
67
S
25
G
4
Posts: 212
Reputation: 7,084

Post » Fri May 12, 2017 3:15 pm

@signaljacker

There's already a perfect solution to the lockout, that solves all the problems. Resubscribe... and you're not locked out anymore. Easy as that! :D

If you don't pay you're locking yourself out. :P

I will still maintain that anyone claiming "lockout" doesn't really have valid reason to make a fuzz. That's just my personal opinion... I just feel that people claiming "lockout" and then tries drive an agenda to get some kind of "free access" after their subscription runs out, why? this is what I don't get..., which I don't think is fair at all for the developers. Why would they spend time to implement special features to allow people to use their livelihood for free, even if it's just small fixes, rexports, to old projects etc?

Personally I think monthly option should solve that. If you just need to make a few minor fixes, a month access for a reduced price instead of a year would seem pretty fair. :)
Follow my progress on Twitter
or in this thread Archer Devlog
B
41
S
18
G
18
Posts: 1,024
Reputation: 13,345

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests