Where to find 2D art graphic artist?

Looking to build a team or have a job to offer?

Post » Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:10 pm

Hi Guys, so can anyone share their experiences from hiring an artist from freelancer.com, indiegamer.org, etc?

Also, Freelancer lists the rates and stuff, but I'm still not clear on how long it would take to draw stuff, and thus figure out very rough total costs. Can anyone give me an idea of money spent and the actual output?
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Post » Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:09 pm

[QUOTE=jogosgratispro]
As long as the final result is good, I don't see a problem there.
Everybody needs to eat.
In order for an artist to become popular and charge more, he/she needs to work to build a nice portfolio.[/QUOTE]

You're not really doing an artist a favor by under paying them. The real reason people go to sites like freelancer.com is to find cheap labor. Artists have to under bid one another in order to be considered for the job. As a result they have to take on more projects to make up for the money they lost under bidding. Artists are over worked, over stressed, they don't get enough sleep, and they don't have time to produce quality work. They can't spend a lot of time on your project because they can't afford to. That's what I mean by unhealthy. It's not good for anyone.

It's also untrue that artists need paid work to build a nice portfolio. We can create art without it. Nearly all artists have work in their portfolio that they weren't paid to create.jchamplain2012-09-02 18:10:23
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Post » Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:59 pm

I agree with jchamplain.I don't even have a portfolio ,Most off my work is 100% free.I only recently started to get an income from my sprites and art.But i had to create a lot off sprites&art for free before i got noticed.
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Post » Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:52 am

I've found some good artists on oDesk, ranging from $2/hr - $30/hr.
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Post » Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:53 am

[QUOTE=jchamplain]

You're not really doing an artist a favor by under paying them. The real reason people go to sites like freelancer.com is to find cheap labor. Artists have to under bid one another in order to be considered for the job. As a result they have to take on more projects to make up for the money they lost under bidding. Artists are over worked, over stressed, they don't get enough sleep, and they don't have time to produce quality work. They can't spend a lot of time on your project because they can't afford to. That's what I mean by unhealthy. It's not good for anyone.

It's also untrue that artists need paid work to build a nice portfolio. We can create art without it. Nearly all artists have work in their portfolio that they weren't paid to create.[/QUOTE]

@jchamplain - Your argument doesn't make any sense. It's up to the artists to decide on whether or not they want to pick up jobs. If they feel they are getting underpaid then why would they be on freelancer.com or anything else to begin with?

A site like that simply gives them more options. If they're in a 3rd world country for instance, they probably don't have much choice in their local market, whereas on something like freelancer they'd have the globe within their reach. Additionally foreign currency may be worth more to them, due to exchange rates.
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Post » Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:59 am

[QUOTE=EyeHawk]

@jchamplain - Your argument doesn't make any sense. It's up to the artists to decide on whether or not they want to pick up jobs. If they feel they are getting underpaid then why would they be on freelancer.com or anything else to begin with?

A site like that simply gives them more options. If they're in a 3rd world country for instance, they probably don't have much choice in their local market, whereas on something like freelancer they'd have the globe within their reach. Additionally foreign currency may be worth more to them, due to exchange rates.[/QUOTE]

It makes perfect sense. People are always more willing to accept lower paying jobs when they are desperate for money. It doesn't seem right to take advantage of that fact. At least not to me. Honest pay for honest work is always the best solution in my opinion.

A site like freelancer.com only gives more options for cheap people hiring cheap labor. The people bidding on jobs don't always get the job they bid for, but they always successfully lower the price of the next artist bidding. Even if the artist gets the job, it's only at a fraction of the pay they originally wanted. Where's the advantage in that? None that I can see.

Whether or not they live in a 3rd world country or that our dollar is worth more is besides the point. They could be earning a decent and fair wage for their work by our standards. Can't we extend that generosity to others, no matter where they are from?

By participating job bidding sites, you're doing more harm than good. You might give an artist a few more dollars than he/she already has, but you're still cheating them, and you're only encouraging a flawed and troubled system.

You can try to justify using sites like freelancer.com all you want. If it makes you feel happy that you saved a little money at the expense of others, and the artist you cheated out of money is happy with the pay, then that's your business. Just don't pretend you are doing anyone any favors. I don't believe you are.
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Post » Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:47 pm

[QUOTE=jchamplain]
It makes perfect sense. People are always more willing to accept lower paying jobs when they are desperate for money. It doesn't seem right to take advantage of that fact. At least not to me. Honest pay for honest work is always the best solution in my opinion.

[/QUOTE]

[sarcasm]Yeah. I always think it is so much better to let the artists that are desperate for money starve rather than possibly run the risk of taking advantage of them.[/sarcasm]

This isn't a political decision. It's an economic one. If you don't like this type of site, don't use it. If you use it, use it with your eyes wide open, and take advantage of it as a way to make connections, develop relationships and build careers and businesses. If you find a project you really want to work on, you're willing to take a loss to get your foot in the door. As an employer you look for the best value to get the job you need done. You aren't going to waste money by choosing the lowest bidder if that bidder produces garbage. Likewise, if you find a talent that you really want to keep, you take care of him and work to ensure you can always get his attention when you need it.

The best of these sites provide a means to connect those needing work done with those willing to do it, and also provide a way to ensure that both parties are treated fairly by ensuring that the money is there to pay the worker and that the money isn't paid out until the work is complete. Yes, the sites get a piece of the action, but they service they provide is of real value, and they earn it.

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Post » Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:36 pm

@Eyehawk
You don't describe what your game is, so it is hard to know how to answer your question about how long it takes and how much it will cost. Just compare the art requirements for a 1-person, but totally amazing game like tiny wings to some mega game produced by the big studios.

Rovio started out making mobile multiplayer RPGs in 2003 and grew to 100+ employees before market conditions forced them to scale back and switch to to smaller casual games (12 employees when they made angry birds, about 50 now). Huge difference in cost between the two. Took them 8 months while working on other contract projects to finish angry birds. (HP Startup Case Study: Rovio Mobile Ltd)

Also, since artists are individuals and work at different speeds, it is often the case that employers want a fixed price for the job rather than paying an hourly rate.

That was a really long way of saying that it would help if you point to another game that you think yours is close to, and then you might get some estimates of the time/effort/cost involved.

In the meantime, have you made your game with placeholder graphics, and is it fun to play? If not, it may be early days to worry about where the art is coming from. If it is already shaping into a great game, you will find it much easier to attract a team and might even go to some place like kickstarter and get some contributions to help pay for awesome art using your working demo as a teaser (either video or actual play.)
kittiewan2012-09-07 15:40:23
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Post » Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:16 am

@jchamplain, I think Kittewan has summarized it quite nicely for you, but if you need a more fundamental explanation perhaps look up "economics" in wikipedia.

@Kittewan - it's tricky for me to give specifics, but as a hypothetical example lets say I wanted to make a space shoot em up and needed a sprite sheet like the following: http://opengameart.org/content/top-down-space-ships What would the ball park costs be from something like freelancer.com? I know the answer to this question could vary wildly, but it would be interesting to know if I'd be looking at 10s, 100s, 1000s of $$$ from other people's experience:)

By the way thanks for the vid on Rovio! I'd be interested to find out how they gauge the gaming ecosystem. It would be so awesome to have a business mentor like Peter Vesterbacker! I don't think anyone like that exists in a backwater like New Zealand unfortunately :(
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Post » Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:39 pm

[QUOTE=kittiewan]
[sarcasm]Yeah. I always think it is so much better to let the artists that are desperate for money starve rather than possibly run the risk of taking advantage of them.[/sarcasm][/QUOTE]

@kittiewan
[sarcasm]Wow, you must really care about artists starving to bring yourself to take advantage of them and underpay for their work. You're right, that makes much better sense...[/sarcasm]

Or you could just pay them a decent wage in the first place.

You don't have to use job bidding sites or use them in the way they were intended. If you want to help an artist on one of these sites, choose one and offer them a decent amount of pay for their work. You don't have to contribute to the problem in order to help someone. Decisions can be political or economical or even both, depending on what you value. For me, it's a moral decision. For you, as you plainly stated, is about money (i.e."economic one").

@EyeHawk No thanks. I understand economics. Morality also has a page on Wikipedia if you're interested.jchamplain2012-09-08 17:47:30
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