Where to find 2D art graphic artist?

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Post » Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:39 pm

[QUOTE=kittiewan]
[sarcasm]Yeah. I always think it is so much better to let the artists that are desperate for money starve rather than possibly run the risk of taking advantage of them.[/sarcasm][/QUOTE]

@kittiewan
[sarcasm]Wow, you must really care about artists starving to bring yourself to take advantage of them and underpay for their work. You're right, that makes much better sense...[/sarcasm]

Or you could just pay them a decent wage in the first place.

You don't have to use job bidding sites or use them in the way they were intended. If you want to help an artist on one of these sites, choose one and offer them a decent amount of pay for their work. You don't have to contribute to the problem in order to help someone. Decisions can be political or economical or even both, depending on what you value. For me, it's a moral decision. For you, as you plainly stated, is about money (i.e."economic one").

@EyeHawk No thanks. I understand economics. Morality also has a page on Wikipedia if you're interested.jchamplain2012-09-08 17:47:30
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Post » Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:00 pm

@jchamplain -- actually, I was thinking of myself as the artist, not the employer. I've been hungry. I've bid really low on projects because I really, really needed the work, or really really wanted the job. Quite recently, in fact. It really pisses me off when...Never mind. You've already said your mind is closed.
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Post » Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:16 pm

[QUOTE=kittiewan] @jchamplain -- actually, I was thinking of myself as the artist, not the employer. I've been hungry. I've bid really low on projects because I really, really needed the work, or really really wanted the job. Quite recently, in fact. It really pisses me off when...Never mind. You've already said your mind is closed. [/QUOTE]

Well, that's another matter all together. You don't have to starve or work for pennies. There's plenty of decent employers willing to pay you a decent wage for your hard work. Here's a few job links. Good luck, and remember, don't sell yourself short. ;)

http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=game+artist&l=
http://www.creativeheads.net/
http://programmermeetdesigner.com/
http://www.krop.com/#!/
http://www.simplyhired.com/a/jobs/list/q-art
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Post » Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:27 pm

[QUOTE=jchamplain]
@EyeHawk No thanks. I understand economics. Morality also has a page on Wikipedia if you're interested.[/QUOTE]

@jchamplain - I bet you haven't read either entry yourself friend :)
That's a whole different can of worms, but in a nutshell morality is NOT black and white - which is essentially what you're trying to imply here.

On the same vein by extrapolation your argument essentially is that all business is bad, since somewhere someone is being exploited. Perhaps you live in some kind idealist virtual commune, but those of us in the real world need money to live, and fuel our creative passions.

Here's another tidbit to think about: Whenever you start something new, e.g. a new profession, business, etc, ironically it is not all about the money, i.e. sometimes you need to do things for non-financial gains such as noteriety, goodwill, experience etc...

Those non-financial rewards will essentially lead to financial ones. So as a start-up company/artist/developer you can't afford to say "I'm getting shafted" just because you're not getting paid as much as Bioware for making my game/art/product right off the bat.

So my point is, freelancer.com and similar sites might appear to be exploiting artists, but the fact is, as the artists gain reputation for doing good jobs, they can then command higher and higher pay. Hence there will be a demand for the service they supply - simple economics. If you want to be successful, I'd strongly suggest studying these fundamentals before slamming others for being "immoral" or "unethical". :)
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Post » Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:42 pm

@JChamplain - Thanks for the links. I hadn't seen some of them before. I'll check them out.

@Eyehawk - I'm no expert on spacecraft, and probably couldn't draw one very well--and certainly not quickly enough to make sense economically. But I'd guess you could expect bids in the hundreds for something pretty decent from someone who loves drawing spacecraft, especially if they want to see their work in a game (which is worth something to someone who is trying to build a career or just wants the personal satisfaction.) I'm sure you'd get many much cheaper (and more expensive) bids, too, but at the end of the day, I'd expect hundreds, because it should probably take more than a day but less than a week of work. Don't forget to budget for the environment (background, planets, starfields, asteroids...), UI and SFX and music, too. Whew!
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Post » Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:11 am

@kittiewan
Glad I could help. :)


@EyeHawk

That's a straw man argument. My position is simply a moral one. Doing the right thing is a personal choice and not an economical one. My idea of success isn't measured on how many people I can take advantage of in order to get ahead or how much money is in the bank. It's measured in other ways. I think your advice is best left for people more like yourself.

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Post » Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:06 am

@jchamplain - If idea of freelancer.com is causing you this much of a moral dilemma, I don't think you'd even want to consider entering the world of business (or even the corporate world) - this is but a mild example of what you think of as 'exploitation'. From your answer I don't think that is your objective anyway, so good luck with your pursuit of art/creativity :)
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Post » Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:08 pm

Another straw man arguement.

It's your dilemma, not mine. I said it's wrong to take advantage of people. You are trying to defend the system that allows you to take advantage of people.

I haven't used the word "exploitation". Although it means the same in the most extreme sense, it's not a direct quote.

Whether or not I decide to start a business is none of your business. Unless you are currently a successful business man, your advice has little value to me or to anyone. Even if you are, I have reason to question your business ethics.

I'm actually a very open minded person. If you can make an strong arguement why it's ok to take advantage of people, I will give it some thought. So far, all you have been able to do is pick apart my comments, misquote me, fabricate talking points, all while ignoring the underline message.

"Do you think it's morally right to take advantage of people?"
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Post » Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:43 am

Let's get this thread back on topic. It wasn't my intention to get caught up in a debate about ethics. Here's a few links.

http://www.hireanillustrator.com/i/
http://www.illustrationmundo.com/
http://forums.indiegamer.com/forumdisplay.php?15-Help-Wanted
http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=11
http://www.game-artist.net/forums/employment/
http://www.gamedev.net/classifieds
http://opengameart.org/forums/open-commissions
http://forum.deviantart.com/jobs/offers/
http://www.kongregate.com/forums/8-collaborations
http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?board=40.0
http://www.indiedb.com/forum/board/recruiting-resumes
http://www.newgrounds.com/art/
http://www.gameartisans.org/jobs/index.php
http://www.lostgarden.com/2011/03/list-of-game-artists.html#comments
http://www.wayofthepixel.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=3t6lhm7mkj7hqfk1mco078uce2&board=6.0

Hope that helps. Good luck!
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Post » Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:12 pm

@jchamplain - Ah still banging on about morality I see. :)

You're talking about straw man arguments, yet here you are suggesting that I'm immoral without admitting that morality is subjective (remember to look up wiki). Furthermore, in my opinion the use of sites such as freelancer.com don't constitute taking advantage of people. I'm really too lazy to keep repeating myself so you can re-read my posts if you like [insert here].

At this point I think we can agree to disagree here, I really couldn't care less about trying to convince you that you're wrong. But as this is an open forum, I think we all need to hold off trying to impose our own misguided, self righteous views on everyone else.

Bye! :)
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