Why does people recommand CC.

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Post » Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:34 pm

I am pretty sure this has been discussed in the past, but since it was more another context, I think it is still valid to talk about here.

Sometimes, people came on another construct forum, and then wants to use CC to begin, and people aren't shocked at all, in fact, they think it is equal to use CC or C2, or even find CC better than C2 for beginners.

I know if you start using CC, you will continue to use it probably,but why recommand it to new users, that doesn't make sense, I think new users should at least begin with the Construct 2 demo, since:

-It is not (as at least) buggy
-It doesn't need workaround
-The Manual is up-to-date and official
-If there are bug, they are corrected pretty fast in general
-It is still supported by Scirra

I am not here to hate CC, but still, I can't get why people think CC is better for beginners than C2, its only advantage is the "power of DirectX9", which you don't really need when beginning, also, usng C2 will help you have good reflexes in programming, since you can reache the limits of the system more easily, and so have to learn which way is the best.

So I make this so we can talk about why CC should/shouldn't be used by new users, and if it should not, why people think it should, and how to correct that if it needs to be corrected.

Sorry for my english, I am french.
Game design is all about decomposing the core of your game so it becomes simple instructions.
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Post » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:46 pm

I've read people recommend CC because of several possible reasons:

- It's free.
- They've used it and it seemed to work fine (I describe CC as a minefield - the bugs are hidden and hard to avoid until you know where they are, and seem to show up for some projects and not others, and most of the weirdness tends to happen well into a project, from my experience, so making something small is not indicative of what it's like to make something large with it), so they think the reports of it's buginess are exaggerated.
- Its exes are native, therefore some people think because of that it's so much better than C2 any other problems about CC can be overlooked, not realizing that C2 could almost always be able to create the exact same game, have more platforms available to release it on and they would have a much smoother time making it. Which I think is sometimes related to the next reason:
- People underestimate the capabilities of C2, thinking because it uses web tech only small, shallow, boring 'browser games' can be made with it (there's quite a stigma about browser games), and don't realize that while the code execution speed isn't as fast as CC's, it's still more than fast enough for like 99% of games and actually renders faster than CC does.
- "The power of directx 9" isnt really an advantage because on windows, C2 games actually use directx as default because chrome and Firefox default to using ANGLE for compatibility reasons which converts OpenGL to directx (IE does the same), and even with this conversion overhead, C2 games still render faster than CC does.Arima2013-07-25 19:48:38
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Post » Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:03 pm

@Arima : I think you are right, mostly on the underestimating C2, the "free" argument also is a big one.

A beginner which uses CC has chances to fall in bugs or annoying things that shouldn't be there, and so, have to do with them, while he shall not.

In my opinion, using workarounds is the worst thing to do in any kind of programming/other domain things (It is like assuming the bug is normal, a part of the system, which prevent it to be seen as buggy as it is).

Thanks for sharing your opinion on the subject Arima ^-^, I hope someone else also share his/her opinion about that, well, if they have enough rep *cough* forum *cough*Aphrodite2013-07-25 20:04:36
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Post » Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:17 am

I don't think anybody on this forum recommends using CC. Even the long-time users admit it's a bit of a wreck, and C2 is a better bet for new users. Officially we've also retired it and strongly recommend no new users start using it; we are leaving it there only for users who have long-term projects that they want to finish in CC.

I think the main reason is just inertia. CC was first released in 2007, and over a period of several years gained fairly widespread recognition. C2 has been around about 2 years, but up until a year ago (or less) it was still missing significant features that CC had. I think we've pretty well caught up by now, but those who were familiar with CC aren't yet properly aware of the progress C2 has made, so still discuss CC. I really wish they wouldn't - C2 is better in almost every way, and I worry that anyone new taking up CC will be disillusioned by a much poorer quality product than we now offer with C2.Ashley2013-07-26 10:19:55
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Post » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:08 pm

@Ashley : thanks for sharing your opinion on the subject, really appreciated.

So we all agree, CC is a great idea, but C2 is an improvement, and so CC shouldn't be used (for now at least, maybe one day It'll be entierly rewritten by the community) by new users, except in particular cases
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Post » Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:08 pm

The best feature with CC was that I was able to make quite nice animated 3D characters in it. Animated 3D backgrounds but the downside was that it kept crashing without any reason even with empty projects.

I would really love to see same sort possiility of 3D with 2d logic in construct 2 also.
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Post » Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:05 pm

@nemo : I didn't know that,it is interesting
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Post » Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:29 am

I think it's pretty safe to say that there is one main reason why CC is still so popular:
It's free.

Arima said it already among other possible reasons, but I'm almost sure it's by far the main reason. A lot of young enthusiastic new developers simply don't have the money, esp. if they live in certain countries.

For me, the only reason to not buy C2 is that I'm still not able to develop reasonably, because all that fancy new tech just doesn't work on my pc. Software rendering with inconsistent framerates from 9 to 30 make it a hell if you're used to thousands of fps for the same game.

But money makes the world go 'round, if 'Cabaret' is right, and should be the main factor for most others.

@Ashley: Don't underestimate that effect. C2 could be the only, completely bug-free, most powerful development software. But it isn't free. And the second place comfortable game making software ... is CC. This is not about C2 free or not free, I'm just stressing that people, who have the choice between a shiny horse that costs or a dusty donkey for free will very often prefer the last one. That's people's nature.tulamide2013-07-27 01:44:45
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