Why dream of C3? Let's stay focused on C2 for now.

Discussion and feedback on Construct 2

Post » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:27 pm

C2 happens to be the software that we're all using to make our games so why be focused on something that doesn't even exist yet and why be so eager to throw C2 away and have to pay for the next version? C2 is still getting regular updates, it hasn't been abandoned yet by any means. It has come a long way since I started using it a year and a half ago. It seems wise to me to focus on making it better for the time being. Yes, there may be a C3 someday but that day isn't today. Let's focus on what we have. Thanks @Ashley for continuing to work on C2 and for not abandoning it yet. At least let me get my game done! :D
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Post » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:50 pm

It's like writing a novel...some people just do it with every shit pen they find on there desk, others always wait & wait for the perfect novel writing software. And in the end they wrote nothing. :)
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Post » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:03 pm

C2 is really great, and I enjoy working with it. Thanks Ashley.
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Post » Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:52 pm

Agreed!
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Post » Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:13 pm

C2 is fantastic, and I have spent so many hours with it so I can definitely say I got my money's worth of it. :) (even if I did not earn anything, it is just a fun software to work with) But we can still dream about exiciting new ideas!
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Post » Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:09 pm

@PSI
C2 is fantastic. However every time I sit to write a plugin I smash my head against C2 SDK limits. And this is where the cross roads are.

Pure IDE developers only see the IDE and what's there. However C2 lacks many core dev tools and basic features that are often complained about. Not saying any one in this thread is complaining at all. There are so many tools that would reduce your development time by 50% and increase your quality of product by 50%. However what isn't known can't be missed. And that's the situation from pure IDE developers.

However C2 is a fantastic tool, but I do develop Java, C++, Unity... blah and can honestly say that C2 lacks some common IDE game development elements.

However I feel the problem isn't looking at C3. it's that Scirra has been hiring for 3 years and hasn't hired anyone. Scirra should hire 2 more people. Ashley and 1 new person to work on C3, and 1 new person to continuing making Plugins/Behaviors and enhancements. These enhancements would also benefit C3. This is how Unity operates. Team to work on current support, and another team working on Unity 5.
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Post » Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:02 pm

@jayderyu - C2 is still being updated all of the time. Could these improvements you speak of be integrated into what's already there? I'm not against the development of C3, of course, I just don't want Ashley to quit working on C2 yet. Will he hire more people? I don't know. If these changes aren't being made now, what makes you think moving to C3 will fix that? For now, is dreaming about C3 just indulging in wish fulfillment fantasies? That being said, I'm all for enhancements as well. I'm not an advanced user - I'm mostly sticking to what's already there but I can see that other users might have different needs.
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Post » Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:11 pm

@jayderyu I thought that c3 will be just an improvement for an editor.

It's time to rewrite an editor, no mac and linux support in 2015? Really? And it's impossible to work with c2's editor on high res displays, like my Apple Retina display or a display on my MBP because of this (unfixable?) bug
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Post » Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:49 am

@PSI
<boooooo, I had a longer post, but then I had an internet problem and lost it :(, so i'm not going to go over it as much. >

No it's not. I don't know if it's common knowledge or not, but the IDE core was not developed by Scirra. It is some one elses work. And that IDE has limitations. Ashley has mentioned many times do to limitations in this IDE there are features that will never come to C2. If the case was just Ashley enhancing the current IDE with X IDE features, then I'd be on the same board. However let's start with some examples.

* There is no full input support from the current to the IDE. All we have is double click. The rest of the input is entirely handled in C++ IDE runtime which is developed by another orgnization.

* The IDE does not allow the SDK reload. This means any change to the edit time files require the IDE to be started. It's only an inconvience, but it hits the work flow for plugin development.

* IDE cannot support modularity. Ashley has made this statement. I don't understand how the IDE is related to this, but I suspect it has to do with limited GUI issues.

* SDK cannot open/create custom windows. Such as custom animtion time lines(BTW Spriter, UDK, Anarchy, Unity..... all have have an animation timeline).. C2 cannot supprot these due to IDE.
http://blogs.adobe.com/edge/files/2012/ ... mation.png

also all above software support custom bezier curves where the curve data is stored in an Object variable
http://answers.unity3d.com/storage/temp/2605-1.png


I've been wanting scengraph object for 3 years, I have made a request, I have added this opinion many times. However it's never been done. So I can make a scengraph. However to manipulate a scenegraph effectivly you either need edit time gui widgets(C2 does no support) or a window tree.. I prefer a window tree
http://www.pixelcrushers.com/dialogue_s ... rarchy.jpg



* SDK cannot draw widgets to the edit graphics context.

World viewable widgets. That show Spline path, and show AI pathfinding lines, but also show collision bounding box for a navmesh. These widget are all manipulatable in the editor. Not doable in C2 as C2 IDE does not support widget rendering or any mouse interaction with C2 drawn ctx.
http://s252.photobucket.com/user/PaulTo ... s.jpg.html


* No SDK engine access
There is no access the internal engine elements. Such as handling sprite storage, file management....
So there are limits now. As an example I want to use file journaling for auto updates, I made a request, but Ashley he didn't see enough value in this work flow tool. With Ashley not wanting to make it, and not having access to the engine asset management system. There is no way for anyone to make it.

Also with no engine access. There is no way to create custom classes. There is no way to add new classes. I would love to create a class, then put the class on the EvenSheet like a variable. No engine access, no way to address on an SDK side.



In the end. The tools that you haven't used. Would let you make games 100% faster, and 100% better quality. People moan that Unity games are good, quality is high, performance is excellent.... so on etc. The reason that Unity does so well.
Good work flow tools because the IDE allows it
Unity supports scripts that effect the engine and IDE
Unity has integrated IDE Store which let's you download plugins right into a project.
Unity has developers that can make Unity better on every level.
Unity allows developers to overwrite Unity parts that don't work so well.

C2 does not support any where near the the work flow tools of Unity and cannot with the current IDE
C2 SDK has no ability to effect/affect? the IDE
C2 has no integrated store
C2 is straight jacketed ability to improve c2(Ashley can make new windows such as TileMap, no one else can)
and so on.

@Sisyphus
C3 is an IDE rewrite. The IDE does see gradual improvements, but there are locked issues. C3 is the IDE rewrite.

This rewrite will likely support OSX and Linux. I'm also pushing for the IDE to be written in JS on NodeJS or HTML5. That way in the future it's possible that C3 could run on a web browser. Or at least have hope to migrate to Web in 10 years.
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Post » Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:22 pm

Hehehe, Well, I don't know, I guess I like new toys!

Any how aside from bug updates when required, it seams C2 is considered completed, so why not talk about the next great thing...

:D :D
If it can be done, someone on the web will show you how to do it!

CDASI Games Mentality Break Splat-a-bug FlapFleet Challenge
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