Why HTML5, and the future of exporters

Discussion and feedback on Construct 2

Post » Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:14 pm

HTML5 with WebGL support is nearly as fast as native EXE games. Poor performance in HTML5 games is caused almost exclusively by no WebGL support, which is usually due to having old drivers which the browser blocks for security reasons. @CrystalNoir, have you tried updating your drivers?

Have you seen our EXE wrapper alpha as well? It's based on Awesomium, which is basically the Google Chrome browser engine in a standalone EXE. The feedback has been very promising, and it's not even as fast as it could be right now. I'm hoping we can tweak Awesomium to skip the driver blacklists, then we can forget about all the driver updating: you'd have a standalone EXE that runs a WebGL-powered game at near-native performance, using the same HTML5 code, saving our 2-man team from having to take on the 6+ month job of writing a new exporter. It should also be portable to Mac and Linux desktop. Hopefully that will solve some of the platform headaches.Ashley2012-03-05 15:15:05
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Post » Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:20 pm

@Ashley :

Yes I already tried to update ma drivers but no change because I have a "poor" graphic cards on my laptop and this is why that I said that performance is better for somes projects in exe than html 5 because it's fully playable on my poor config, but with html 5 if you can't activate the webgl this is "dead" :)

I did not see your alpha exe wrapper and I'm going to test that.

Edit: I see it but in fact that is the same thing, that stays html 5 embeded in an exe (html 5 without browser) so the performances stay the same "in fine". To make a summary, if you don't have a good PC performances will be poor because of webgl or some things. With my sample I must say that 250 stars on my laptop is too much, in html 5 and exe but if I put 175 stars, same performances in html 5 but better performance in exe with a native directx application :)

But don't believe that I want to be boring with these remarks, that was just my feeling. And I understand that you don't have enought hands to develop all features.CrystalNoir2012-03-05 15:38:46
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Post » Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:39 am

[QUOTE=Ashley] HTML5 with WebGL support is nearly as fast as native EXE games. Poor performance in HTML5 games is caused almost exclusively by no WebGL support, which is usually due to having old drivers which the browser blocks for security reasons.[/QUOTE]

@Ashley
I'm sorry but this is not true at all, in theory maybe, in practice it's not at least currently.
Without going too far away, I'm converting actRact on cc and even on dx9 the difference in graphics between c2 is huge.
Also compiled application gets native effects and other neat things like distortion meshes that are almost impossible in html5.
And even without those I actually took the time to create a benchmark:

Compare the fps of this Native EXE (HGE)

To this exact same example in c2


I don't want to sound like a douche but one thing is believing in html5 (and I believe in it too) another is believing the impossible.. we have to be realists, right now performance is not even in the same league..0plus12012-03-06 00:44:04
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Post » Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:10 am

@0plus1: your observation is true to a certain extent.
Check this blog article from back in November. It'd be interesting to have a new comparative with the most recent versions of the browsers to see how things have changed.

Also as noted in the article CC is filed with optimization tricks, making it not the best benchmark anyway.

On my computer any HTML5 game I play has 60 FPS performances. In theory my PC could execute BF3 in high details @ 1920X1080.
HTML5 has more room for performances improvement than DX9.
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Post » Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:39 am

I'm curious as to where people see JavaScript, HTML5, WebGL, and maybe things like Native Client, all fitting into a future possibly full of services like Gaikai and OnLive.
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Post » Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:53 am

@0plus1: distortion meshes and things like that can, in fact, be implemented with WebGL, because in the end it's a calculation over a shader.
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Post » Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:56 am

I am completly agree with 0plus1.

I don't say that html 5 is not the future for the WEB games (yes it is I think html 5 will have more features than flash) but for "games only" I don't think that the native exe will disappear or will be replace by a "simple" embeded html 5 game.

I'm sure of one thing : When Scirra said a sentence like "after the html 5 will be ok, we were be able to see for other export possibilities" at the beginning of C2, I wanted to help them and support so I adopt the earlier licence. (we have to be honest, C2 is a great product)

But if I was be able to see the future, and read before what I read in this topic (to resume exe is not the plan either), I would not have bought the earlier licence and stay with the free version.CrystalNoir2012-03-06 10:01:29
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Post » Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:02 am

@Kyatric In fact I said "in theory" because in hte future it may be, but in practice have you seen my benchmark? html5 is not compiled, and it will probably never be and intepreted vs compiled will never be the same.
There will be room for improvement but we will never see bf3 on html5, at least not for a long time. This is to say that html5 will never be a viable solution for desktop gaming as games are moving towards incredibly complex (and optimized) engines that are not in the same league as anything that is made or ever will be made in html5. Example? Bastion has been made in nacl not in html5.

@Pode Everything can be made in theory, but with what performances? There are effects that are hardware accelareted at driver level and webGL will probably never get them as driver manufacturers will have to code for too many cases. It's the same thing as directX vs openGL. DirectX is incredibly optimized right out of the box while with openGL there's a lot more work to do (in exchange of cross platform compatibility).
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Post » Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:14 pm

@0plus1 : a shader is executed by the graphic card, so it's hardware accelerated.
And, by the way, interpreted can be faster than native, because the JIT has access to what the compiler don't : the execution context .Pode2012-03-06 12:14:58
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Post » Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:05 pm

@Pode are you seriously saying that an interpreted language can be faster than bytecode?!?
Do you have sources to support your claim? I'm always open to learn something new..
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