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Discussion and feedback on Construct 2

Post » Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:56 pm

You've been plugged on Indiegames.com:

Indie Tools: Construct 2

In case you didn't know :)
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Post » Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:12 pm

People seem skeptical :) Yeah i hope one day C2 will have scripting support in-editor :D
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Post » Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:48 pm

I've tinkered with the demo for Construct, and although I really like it, having to click so much to achieve events that you could type out really quickly (especially with intellisense support) with a built-in script editor would be really handy. I think it wouldn't be too difficult to allow the developer to use either advanced script mode or drag and drop for beginners. Plus I don't know, I think it's a lot easier for readability to see a script to understand the logic flow of a complex program.

Game Maker does a really good job with providing support for both, and includes support for calling functions by string name and also instantiate objects by string name, its really great for creating game editors and such.
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Post » Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:59 pm

I was a long-time game maker fan, even till the day I discovered Construct Classic, which at the time was still quite lacking of features, but already so much cleaner and easier to use than Game Maker.

I worked on plenty of game maker games and enjoyed both scripting in GML and eventing. But the two aspects never felt as though they were an integrated experience for me. I felt as though I was calling scripts with events most of the time, or wholly using one or the other.

What I can see Construct doing now is having even scripts behave as drag-and-drop behaviors, which certainly doesn't give as much ease in changing options, but is much neater and easier for people who don't know anything about codes.
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Post » Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:08 pm

[QUOTE=countofquad] I've tinkered with the demo for Construct, and although I really like it, having to click so much to achieve events that you could type out really quickly (especially with intellisense support) with a built-in script editor would be really handy.[/QUOTE]

@countofquad - you can actually type out events using the keyboard shortcuts.
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Post » Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:44 pm

I'm still skeptical about scripting in events - I think it's one of those features which sounds better than it would really be, like 3D (everyone thinks 3D is really cool, but noone seems to give much thought to the vastly more complicated modelling and level design processes and sophisticated matrix math that tends to go with it). Events are surprisingly sophisticated - don't forget a simple two-condition event in script would go something like:

for each sprite:
- if meets first condition:
-- add to temporary list

for each sprite in temporary list:
- if does not meet second condition:
-- remove from temporary list

for each sprite in temporary list:
- run action on instance

Throw in your curly braces and function calls and you have a pretty dense, unintuitive chunk of code. The event actually reads simpler and is quicker to put together. Of course this isn't really comparing apples to apples since you don't tend to write scripts like that, but it does show that events and script don't really play nice together. On top of that we added Python scripting to Classic and I don't think it really was particularly successful - it was extremely complicated and a big drain on development time, and the integration with the runtime was pretty limited (you couldn't write in script everything you could do with events, which kind of defeated the point). Plus I lost count how many times people described Classic on forums as a "Python game creator" which required programming :P

So I think events only is a nice differentiator. It's what makes C2 unique.

Anyway, nice to have a mention on indiegames.com!
Scirra Founder
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Post » Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:56 pm

Well, @ashley, I think events are as powerful as coding, if not more. All drag'n'drop game making tools have this discussion at some point and the result is always more or less the same: there's nothing you can't do with eventing that you'd be able to do with coding.

However, there are issues. Construct 2 isn't object oriented, for instance. There's no way to simplify coding, everything is always all over the place, it's like procedural programming all over again! We cannot make our custom ACEs with construct events, and that makes artificial intelligence in c2 games almost impossible - you can prototype the pieces, but you can't assemble them - it would be nice to have something like [if I have a shot at defeating the player] then [chase player], with all the complexities (that I coded myself) hidden away.

In addition, object-oriented concepts such as an object composed of multiple sub-objects each with their responsibilities, code reusability, design patterns and other things feel very weird (and that's not just with construct).

I think stuff like that has to change before "eventing" can be considered up to scratch.
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Post » Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:03 am

[QUOTE=Fimbul]There's no way to simplify coding, everything is always all over the place, it's like procedural programming all over again![/QUOTE]

Not sure what you mean about procedural coding, but I disagree about everything being all over the place and no way to simplify. If you use lots of groups, sub-groups and sub-events well, I find it to be extremely organized, as an entire section of code can be described in a group name. It makes it very easy to find what you're looking for. It's how I manage working with a 5000-event event sheet in loot pursuit - and things are plenty easy to find, as long as I actually place them somewhere logically labeled.

[QUOTE=Fimbul]We cannot make our custom ACEs with construct events, and that makes artificial intelligence in c2 games almost impossible - you can prototype the pieces, but you can't assemble them - it would be nice to have something like [if I have a shot at defeating the player] then [chase player], with all the complexities (that I coded myself) hidden away.[/QUOTE]

You can actually do A.I. with events as they are, and it's not almost impossible at all. You could do what you described above by combining some of the player's character's stats into a 'power level' variable that could be compared to the enemy power level, and to fight or run depending.

I haven't done any 'real' coding, but I'm guessing it's a lot different from how you're used to doing it though.

[QUOTE=Fimbul]In addition, object-oriented concepts such as an object composed of multiple sub-objects each with their responsibilities[/QUOTE]

Containers are made for exactly that. :) They're not in C2 yet though.

[QUOTE=Fimbul]code reusability, design patterns and other things feel very weird (and that's not just with construct).[/QUOTE]

Design patterns? I'm not quite sure what you mean by that?Arima2012-08-01 06:06:52
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Post » Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:36 am

Event system is powerful for me by customize plugins, more then having a text editor. Making plugin will force programmer to make a reuse-able code.


--
Very thanks to @Ashley for creating this architecture (event system + plugins). I had made more then 70 plugins, and these plugins really help my team member in their applications. rexrainbow2012-08-01 06:38:48
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Post » Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:45 am

scripting in events? No Ashley, don't leave your way! Keep all the Things simple! That's the only right Way!

I have testet all the other's like GM etc. Construct 2 is a sensation!

Can't sleep anymore before R100 is released.....@Ashley - please drink some extra strong coffee's and work hard on your world domination Tool!

KMag


KMag2012-08-01 10:47:25
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